[anarchist23]

The Zionists who want to steal Palestinian land are fucking it up for the moderate Israelis.
As I said earlier if the Israelis want to live in a war zone, so be it. They will never have peace otherwise.




Edit.
So noir says Palestine doesn't exist. lol

[starman2003]

The two state solution is the best choice for the Israelis. If they do not let the Palestinians have a state the war will continue and the Arabs will not give up arms.

Unfortunately, as matters now stand, Israel is so dominant militarily and the Arabs so powerless the former can do anything. It was bad enough just before the "arab spring" when arab state actors lacked sufficient arms. Now there aren't even decent state actors. Even Egypt is internally preoccupied.

Israel has no right to the West bank.

Couldn't agree more but they'll take it anyway. Arab nations have nowhere near sufficient power to resist Israeli moves, and US politicians are in a similar pathetic state vis a vis the pro-Israrl bunch here.

[anarchist23]

As I said earlier Israeli citizens will never have peace and their young will all have to serve in the military for many years. When will the Israelis allow the Palestinians their own country. If Israel wanted peace they could have it tomorrow but they wand land.
The youth of Israel now are waking up to the reality of a militarised state..

[starman2003]

As I said earlier Israeli citizens will never have peace and their young will all have to serve in the military for many years.

I don't think they've had much problem with that for almost 70 years already.

When will the Israelis allow the Palestinians their own country. If Israel wanted peace they could have it tomorrow but they wand land.
The youth of Israel now are waking up to the reality of a militarised state..

Sure, the price they're willing to pay to keep the land. In fact the price they'll pay, no matter what they do in the next 5-10 years, will inevitably be trifling compared to what they paid in the past, when the arabs still had a modicum of strength.

[noir]

X

[anarchist23]

Israel is a criminal occupying force! Its continued wars, military occupation, illegal settlements and assasinations lead to harsh criticism much like in racist apartheid S. Africa. There are "Jew only roads and neighborhoods" with religious Zealots who perpetuate the MYTHS that the land belongs to them because of a King David, who from an archaelogical and historical point of view never existed in Palestine! Zionists keep diggin up everywhere but have never found any trace of his glorious kingdoms. Israel is the last remaining Colonial power that put in place roadblocks and checkpoints which are a part of everyday life for Palestinians while Israel carpet bombs or practices collective punishment on the Christian and Muslim populations of Palestine.






.

[starman2003]

Israel is a criminal occupying force! Its continued wars, military occupation, illegal settlements and assasinations lead to harsh criticism much like in racist apartheid S. Africa. There are "Jew only roads and neighborhoods" with religious Zealots

There's one key difference, however. Israel's backers in the US are orders of magnitude stronger than those of any other state. They'll stand up for Israel no matter what it does. To a considerable degree, they control the media hence can paint Israel as the epitome of virtue no matter what the truth is. Anyone who tries to call attention to Israeli misdeeds is labelled an "anti-semite." Those who wield great power in our society constantly bombard us with holocaust reminders. By maximizing the potency of the "anti-semite" smear, they generally forestall criticism of jews or Israel. Hence enabling them to get away with anything.....

[Rich]

Israel is a criminal occupying force!

What? Its the Muslims that are the criminal occupying force. All the land outside of Saudi Arabia that they occupy they took though murder and terror. Israel has liberated a small area of land and freed it from tyranny. Why in God's name do we need another Muslim state? Aren't there enough Muslim shit holes in the world. Why don't Muslims spend a bit more time putting the vast areas of the world that they do control in order rather than endless whining about the tiny bits of land they have lost.

Anyway until the Palestinians support the right of return to Armenians I'm not interested in their demands. Until they start apologising and show some contrition for the terrible things they have done over the last 1400 years. Saudi Arabia is the real Apartheid state where infidels are not even allowed in large parts of the coutnry and treated as second class citizens in the rest.

[anarchist23]

Saudi Arabia is the real Apartheid state where infidels are not even allowed in large parts of the coutnry and treated as second class citizens in the rest.

Israel is an apartheid state. An apartheid state where Palestiniansare are treated as second class citizens.

An Israeli army officer who fired the entire magazine of his automatic rifle into a 13-year-old Palestinian girl and then said he would have done the same even if she had been three years old was acquitted on all charges by a military court yesterday.

The soldier, who has only been identified as "Captain R", was charged with relatively minor offences for the killing of Iman al-Hams who was shot 17 times as she ventured near an Israeli army post near Rafah refugee camp in Gaza a year ago.

The manner of Iman's killing, and the revelation of a tape recording in which the captain is warned that she was just a child who was "scared to death", made the shooting one of the most controversial since the Palestinian intifada erupted five years ago even though hundreds of other children have also died.

After the verdict, Iman's father, Samir al-Hams, said the army never intended to hold the soldier accountable.

"They did not charge him with Iman's murder, only with small offences, and now they say he is innocent of those even though he shot my daughter so many times," he said. "This was the cold-blooded murder of a girl. The soldier murdered her once and the court has murdered her again. What is the message? They are telling their soldiers to kill Palestinian children."

The military court cleared the soldier of illegal use of his weapon, conduct unbecoming an officer and perverting the course of justice by asking soldiers under his command to alter their accounts of the incident.

Capt R's lawyers argued that the "confirmation of the kill" after a suspect is shot was a standard Israeli military practice to eliminate terrorist threats.

Following the verdict, Capt R burst into tears, turned to the public benches and said: "I told you I was innocent."

The army's official account said that Iman was shot for crossing into a security zone carrying her schoolbag which soldiers feared might contain a bomb. It is still not known why the girl ventured into the area but witnesses described her as at least 100 yards from the military post which was in any case well protected.

A recording of radio exchanges between Capt R and his troops obtained by Israeli television revealed that from the beginning soldiers identified Iman as a child.

In the recording, a soldier in a watchtower radioed a colleague in the army post's operations room and describes Iman as "a little girl" who was "scared to death". After soldiers first opened fire, she dropped her schoolbag which was then hit by several bullets establishing that it did not contain explosive. At that point she was no longer carrying the bag and, the tape revealed, was heading away from the army post when she was shot.

Although the military speculated that Iman might have been trying to "lure" the soldiers out of their base so they could be attacked by accomplices, Capt R made the decision to lead some of his troops into the open. Shortly afterwards he can be heard on the recording saying that he has shot the girl and, believing her dead, then "confirmed the kill".

"I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over," he said.

Palestinian witnesses said they saw the captain shoot Iman twice in the head, walk away, turn back and fire a stream of bullets into her body.

On the tape, Capt R then "clarifies" to the soldiers under his command why he killed Iman: "This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the [security] zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed."

At no point did the Israeli troops come under attack.

The prosecution case was damaged when a soldier who initially said he had seen Capt R point his weapon at the girl's body and open fire later told the court he had fabricated the story.

Capt R claimed that he had not fired the shots at the girl but near her. However, Dr Mohammed al-Hams, who inspected the child's body at Rafah hospital, counted numerous wounds. "She has at least 17 bullets in several parts of the body, all along the chest, hands, arms, legs," he told the Guardian shortly afterwards. "The bullets were large and shot from a close distance. The most serious injuries were to her head. She had three bullets in the head. One bullet was shot from the right side of the face beside the ear. It had a big impact on the whole face."

The army's initial investigation concluded that the captain had "not acted unethically". But after some of the soldiers under his command went to the Israeli press to give a different version, the military police launched a separate investigation after which he was charged.

Capt R claimed that the soldiers under his command were out to get him because they are Jewish and he is Druze.

The following is a recording of a three-way conversation that took place between a soldier in a watchtower, an army operations room and Capt R, who shot the girl

From the watchtower [three-way conversation between watchtower soldier, the operations room in another location, and finally, Captain R, the officer on the ground near watchtower "It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward." "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?" "A girl about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death." "I think that one of the positions took her out." "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."

From the operations room "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?"

Watchtower "A girl about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death."

A few minutes later, Iman is shot from one of the army posts

Watchtower "I think that one of the positions took her out."

Captain R "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."

Capt R then "clarifies" why he killed Iman

"This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over."

Guardian

[starman2003]

What? Its the Muslims that are the criminal occupying force.

In most areas of the Mideast, virtually all the people are muslims.

All the land outside of Saudi Arabia that they occupy they took though murder and terror.

Through conquest, just like the Assyrians, Persians, Macedonians, Romans before them and Turks, British etc after....

Israel has liberated a small area of land and freed it from tyranny.

Probably at least 98% of the people of the Mideast see things entirely differently....Israelis ethnically cleansed an area sufficiently to establish a master race democracy.

Why in God's name do we need another Muslim state? Aren't there enough Muslim shit holes in the world.

Did people whine when the former Yugoslavia and USSR were split into separate countries in addition to all those already existing in Europe?

Why don't Muslims spend a bit more time putting the vast areas of the world that they do control in order rather than endless whining about the tiny bits of land they have lost.

If large parts of the Mideast are in disorder, it is largely due to neocon meddling. Meddling by pro-Israel neocons that is.
As for the "tiny bits" of land, it's easy to be dismissive when it's not your home.

[Zionist Nationalist]

Israel is an apartheid state. An apartheid state where Palestinians are are treated as second class citizens.

before you spill any more bullshit provide some proofs

if you talk about the Arab citizens of Israel well there is no apartheid and they are not treated like 2nd class citizens

if you talk about the west bank. the Palestinians they are not citizens of Israel so apartheid argument is ridiculous in that context

[anarchist23]

Have you noticed how the apologists for Israel make out that Israel has absolutely nothing to answer for. A classic case of indoctrination and brainwashing.

— When talking about the Middle East, Israel is often touted as the only democracy in the region and a beacon of human rights surrounded by hostile neighbors.

It’s a dubious notion, to say the least, considering Israel’s inhumane treatment of Palestinians, its illegal occupation of Palestine and its institutional racism that has left Israel as world’s leading apartheid state.

But Israel’s support for oppression has no borders and, possibly, no limits.

The country’s arms industry has a not-so-secret history of fomenting civil strife, from enabling genocide in Sudan and Myanmar to quashing dissent and arming despots across the Middle East, Africa, South America and even Asia.

Israel exports billions of dollars worth of military equipment and training each year to major human rights abusers, and it keeps the full list of buyers notoriously close to its chest.

Take the military alliance between Israel and Saudi Arabia. While the two nations often pretend to be at odds in the media, Saudi Arabia and Israel’s militaries are actually closely aligned behind an agenda of regional oppression and control.

This couldn’t have been more obvious last year when Israel and Saudi Arabia stood united in their opposition to America’s impending deal with Iran over the Iranian nuclear program. Both nations poured a combined $100 million into PR and lobbying efforts to sway public and political opinion in the U.S. against peace with Iran while convincing Americans that Iran had non-existent nuclear weapons.

Opposition to the deal was so serious that Israel and Saudi Arabia were planning a joint attack on Iran if the deal went through. A meeting between the two showed how the Saudis would allow Israel to use their air space and provide drones, rescue helicopters and tanker planes.

Beyond uniting against Tehran, WikiLeaks dumps of classified State Department documents revealed that Israel and Saudi Arabia collaborated with the United States as early as 2006 to overthrow the Syrian government through forming, funding and arming opposition groups that provoked a sectarian civil war.

And according to leaked Clinton emails, a sectarian civil war in Syria was not only touted as beneficial to Israel but was encouraged by the Jewish State .

As if 300,000 civilians dead, 3 million refugees and over 6.5 million Syrians internally displaced wasn’t enough, the collaboration between the two rogue states runs even deeper and more deadly.

Israel has used the threat of terrorism, which it helped fuel in Syria, to justify a massive military buildup along its border in order to illegally extract oil and gas from Syria’s Golan Heights. Saudi Arabia supported this build up with as much as $1 billion in funding.

In return for Saudi support, Israel agreed to arm the kingdom’s bombing spree of impoverished Yemen, which has left nearly 10,000 people dead and over 300,000 children starving just one year into the conflict.

Beyond the Middle East, since 9/11, American police have been traveling to Israel to learn methods of brutality and repression that Israel uses against indigenous Palestinians. These military tactics have been used to quash dissent on American soil, targeting African Americans, antiwar activists and income equality protesters. Police brutality in the US has gotten so out of control that the U.N. Human Rights Council chastised the U.S. over its epidemic of police violence, discrimination, needless killings, and general neglect.

South of our border, Israel used its experience suppressing indigenous uprisings in Palestine to aid Mexico’s police state in its battle against the Zapatistas, an ongoing indigenous Mayan uprising.

And Israeli military-turned-mercenaries helped to train the deadly paramilitary forces of Colombia’s infamous Medellín drug cartel, led by notorious narco Pablo Escobar. In the end, the cartel, was responsible for as many as 3,500 assassinations at the height of its power, when it supplied 80% of the world’s cocaine.

And at the U.S.-Mexico border, Israeli weapons and technology firms have helped arm U.S. forces fighting in what TeleSur journalist Abby Martin calls “a hidden war.”

Just as Israel sold arms to genocidal regimes and pariah states like Apartheid South Africa and Rwanda, it’s sold weapons, military and homeland security training and surveillance technology to South Sudanese rebels.

Now these factions use these Israeli exports to carry out war crimes and commit potential crimes against humanity.

And Israel’s been doing this since the 1960s.

Of course, Israel’s not aiding a legitimate quest for freedom or upholding humanistic values. If it were, it wouldn’t allow millions of South Sudanese to face starvation while it protects its own strategic interests there.

“South Sudan is geographically located along a route used by Iran to transfer financial and military assistant throughout the region that supports Palestinian resistance movements. Israel sees potential in the growing alliance with South Sudan as a gateway to weakening these groups by blocking transfer routes previously used by Iran to reach Sudan and other countries in the Middle East.”

And, naturally, it’s not just about quelling Palestinian resistance — there’s also oil involved: South Sudan just so happens to provide Israel with black gold at a very convenient price.

Support for oppression can be seen as part of a long Israeli tradition — a tradition that’s made Israel, a country no bigger than New Jersey, one of the world’s top arms exporters.

Israel uses the Occupied West Bank and Gaza as “laboratories to test and refine weapons and methods of domination and control.” They can sell their products as “battle-tested” and “combat proven,” giving them an edge in the international arms trade.

According to the journalist Rania Khalek, “Israeli weapons aid potential genocides in Myanmar and Burundi.”

Just like in South Sudan, when most of the world slapped Myanmar with sanctions following a 1988 military coup and the end of democratic elections in 1990, Israel boosted its investment and helped to modernize the country’s arsenal.

And even though the military junta is no longer in power, those military sanctions — including sanctions from the U.S. — remain in place. And Israel’s weapons and war industry continue to profit.

So what’s Myanmar doing with advanced military training and cutting edge technology from its long-time supporter? Committing genocide against its Rohingya Muslim minority, for one.

It’s this atrocious disregard for human life that propels the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement. From the Israeli tourism industry to hummus to Sodastream, the movement doesn’t hold back on targets, and even the Israeli arms industry is starting to feel the effects.

In 2015, the industry was expected to see $4 billion in sales — over $3 billion less than it raked in in 2012. And a lot of that drop can be contributed to “less desire for Israeli-made products.”
However, with the moral support and $3.1 billion of military aid offered annually by U.S., it may be a long time before Israel’s faces any significant consequences for its worldwide human rights violations.

[Zionist Nationalist]

There is nothing wrong in selling arms to conflict zones if they wanna kill themselves its their problem.
everyone are selling weapons to conflict zones including China and Russia and your country the UK

you are just being hypocrite here

[anarchist23]

There is nothing wrong in selling arms to conflict zones if they wanna kill themselves its their problem.
everyone are selling weapons to conflict zones including China and Russia and your country the UK
you are just being hypocrite here

I am a pacifist and against all countries selling arms including UK.
Three wrongs don't make a right.
How many UN resolutions against Israel? It is quite a few.
You Zionists always have some piss poor excuse for Israeli barbarism.
No wonder you're hated around the world.
WAKE UP!

[Potemkin]

ZN has a point, a23. Why single out Israel for this? We're all rats, swimming in the same sewer.

[anarchist23]

ZN has a point, a23. Why single out Israel for this? We're all rats, swimming in the same sewer.

Speak for yourself. We are discussing Israel. If you want to discuss UK arm sales ZN should start a thread on it..
It wasn't that long ago I put a piece on TLTE against UK arms sales by HRW.
Can't ZN speak for himself?
Obviously not.

[starman2003]

if you talk about the Arab citizens of Israel well there is no apartheid and they are not treated like 2nd class citizens

Of course they're treated like second class citizens. In the US blacks were historically at the very bottom of society, but for the past 8 years we've had a black President. Hell will freeze before Israel has an arab PM. Arabs can't even serve in the air force. Under Saddam, at least some Shia were allowed to serve in the Iraqi air force.

[Rich]

ZN has a point, a23. Why single out Israel for this? We're all rats, swimming in the same sewer.

The Nazis hated the Jews, because they didn't consider them proper White people. The modern left hates the Israeli Jews, because they consider them to be the quintessential White people. The left loves the Jews of Nazi Europe, because they were the celebrity victims of "White privilege", they hate the modern Jews because they are the celebrity beneficiaries of "White privilege".

[Potemkin]

The Nazis hated the Jews, because they didn't consider them proper White people. The modern left hates the Israeli Jews, because they consider them to be the quintessential White people. The left loves the Jews of Nazi Europe, because they were the celebrity victims of "White privilege", they hate the modern Jews because they are the celebrity beneficiaries of "White privilege".

I think there's a lot of truth in that. The Western gentiles' obsession with the Jews has always puzzled me. And I say that as a Western gentile myself.

[noemon]

I think there's a lot of truth in that. The Western gentiles' obsession with the Jews has always puzzled me. And I say that as a Western gentile myself.

The reason why antisemitism remains pervasive unlike other anti-ideologies is I think because it has deep roots in christian society & ideology. Anti-ideologies like for example anti-Greek from Bulgarians and anti-Bulgarian from Greeks, or anti-Germanism from French and anti-Frenchism from Germans, these ideologies came and went as they came, they were used for a purpose during wartime, during periods of political antagonisms but when the antagonism subsisted these anti-ideologies waned with them and people started letting them go, not entirely and not quickly but after a while they were no longer relevant. Antisemitism seems a lot more pervasive. I also think that the absence of Jews from Europe plays a big role as well because when people have little to no experience with Jewish people within their social circle that enables propaganda to paint them however and without a real person to weigh against the propaganda through his or her mere presence the imagination starts going rampant.

A lot of people who talk about Jews have this idea that they are all rich, cunning, dodgy and all that jazz when there are a lot of working class Jews living among us, low middle-class, middle-class, rich people whatever.