[Zionist Nationalist]

Capture Gaza ?
Zionists are stupider than i thought. Just never learn.

not forever

but Someone will have to put an end to Hamas if they wont learn to behave

[anasawad]

@Zionist Nationalist
You do realize that the only reason Hamas actually keeps going is because your government keeps attacking Gaza and killing its people.
Look at Hamas popularity in Gaza. It spikes when Israel invades. Then in the following period it starts slowing down and opposition starts growing. Then Israel invades again and all the opposition unites under Hamas and its back to popularity.

Your right wing government fuels their right wing governments.

[pugsville]

the celebration of terrorist outrages, the naming of streets after terrorists, and so on and so forth.

And Israel does not do much the same? Elect terrorists to be prime minister , issue medals to terrorists organisations, name streets after terrorists?

When the future Israelis were under the British Mandate, a very much lighter 'occupation' quite a few turned to terrorism and the enjoyed widespread support both of the wider population and the Jewish leaders.

There is a long history of bad behaviour of both sides, and I certainly do not excuse Palestinian terrorism, all terrorism and the targeting of civilians is equally unacceptable.

[Zionist Nationalist]

@Zionist Nationalist
You do realize that the only reason Hamas actually keeps going is because your government keeps attacking Gaza and killing its people.
Look at Hamas popularity in Gaza. It spikes when Israel invades. Then in the following period it starts slowing down and opposition starts growing. Then Israel invades again and all the opposition unites under Hamas and its back to popularity.

Your right wing government fuels their right wing governments.

Israel left Gaza strip and Hamas got even more popular than before

and so the Gazans will keep suffering for supporting a terrorist entity

2008 war was.because of unstopabble Hamas aggression
2014 conflict.was because of the three kidnapped teenagers and.another wave of hamas aggression and in the end.they didnt got ther demands to release their prisoners

[Rich]

The occupation is disgusting, the 1400 hundred year occupation of Muslim terrorists. Even if Nasser didn't intend to attack the fact that he pretended to, needed to be met with merciless retribution. for 1400 years Muslims have bullied and abused into getting their way. When Muslims threaten us it is necessary to totally humiliate them as happened to Nasser. Nasser told the peace keepers to leave not Israel. Nasser blockaded Israel, these were acts of war. Without the West Bank Israel lacked strategic depth, it would have been lunacy to sit and wait until the forces of Arab Muslim terrorism were ready to attack. The Armenians can tell you where trusting the Muslims got them.

[skinster]

I wish I could be so optimistic. The main problem here is people tend to be ignorant, and don't care about international relations. Generally, the only Americans who care much about the Mideast--to the point of being willing to vote on the basis of Mideast policy--are Israel's supporters....

BDS is effective and will continue to be, despite the laughter that comes from zionists (which by the way, often includes complaints about the movement, suggesting they know of it's effect). American Jews shut down AIPAC's annual conference in D.C. this year. A lot of young people view Israel by what they see - on social media - how it periodically kills thousands of Palestinians and otherwise kills them every other day or oppresses them with the daily violence that is the illegal occupation. More and more people are speaking out about Israel's crimes. zionists in the US fear this, which is why they've tried to blacklist students who support Palestine or criminalize the BDS movement. But more importantly, zionists themselves have difficulty excusing Israel's violence, as you can see on this board (i'm obviously not talking about the fascist zionists here). I think if things continue in this direction, they will change, and the more people are educated on the idea that Israel's treatment of Palestinians is akin to slavery (since they're enslaved by the zionist state), the sooner things will change, since most people oppose slavery.

I never used to be optimistic about this issue and I'm not really optimistic about most things, but the current situation just does not seem like it's sustainable.

[Rich]

BDS is effective and will continue to be, despite the laughter that comes from zionists (which by the way, often includes complaints about the movement, suggesting they know of it's effect).

No we just laugh at the hypocrisy of the Islamophiles, no BDS for Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states, despite their apartheid system which excludes Infidels form Mecca and Medina. Plus the appalling way they treat their immigrant labour. We've seen in Sunni Arab Iraq, the Syrian opposition, Libya, Algeria and Egypt what happens when you try and give Sunni Muslims rights.

The funny thing is that the Muslim lovers seem to accept that Muslims need demented, semi genocidal leaders like Saddam, Hafez Assad and Mummar Gadaffi. Israel's control over the West Bank and Gaza is far more benign than their own leaders. Israel's Arab Muslim citizens are very lucky to live in a country where Muslims don't run the show.

[skinster]

Actually I would support the end of the racist regime in Saudi Arabia too and do tell Muslims I know not to visit, so ye can get ye knickers out of that twist.

[pugsville]

them as happened to Nasser. Nasser told the peace keepers to leave not Israel. Nasser blockaded Israel, these were acts of war.

And when Israel refuses to have peace keepers on it's terroritory?

and When Israel blockades gaza isn't that too an act of war?

Or is somehow different when Israel does it?

[starman2003]

Nasser told the peace keepers to leave not Israel. Nasser blockaded Israel, these were acts of war.

Nasser essentially feigned an aggressive stance toward Israel to regain his leadership of the arab world. By appearing poised to liberate palestine he got other arabs to rally around him. But the facts on the ground belied his rhetoric. Knowing he stood no chance of a successful offensive, he deployed his forces defensively.
Btw the "blockade" affected only Eilat...

Without the West Bank Israel lacked strategic depth, it would have been lunacy to sit and wait until the forces of Arab Muslim terrorism were ready to attack

The Jordanian army was terrorist? Israel, again, already fought and won the '48 war under less favorable circumstances.

skinster, I wish you were right. But lots of jews have had problems with Israeli policy over the years and it hasn't changed their basic support for the country.

[skinster]

But lots of jews have had problems with Israeli policy over the years and it hasn't changed their basic support for the country.

I disagree with that, but since neither of us can tell what the future holds...

[Zionist Nationalist]

Jews wont stop supporting Israel because those who oppose Israel are either clear anti Semites or anti Semites in disguise

and the demands of the BDS are so unreasonable that even discussing something with those people is a waste of time and completely pointless
they are basically asking for the dissolution of Israel

[starman2003]

Jews wont stop supporting Israel because those who oppose Israel are either clear anti Semites or anti Semites in disguise

There have been rabbis who opposed Israel. I don't care about the ethnicity or identification of anyone; I just don't think supporting Israel is in America's best interest. Any Americans who consider Israel the #1 priority, and sacrifice our money and interests to support it, are traitors IMO.
But I concur many/most jews will continue to back Israel, essentially no matter what.

and the demands of the BDS are so unreasonable that even discussing something with those people is a waste of time and completely pointless
they are basically asking for the dissolution of Israel

As I posted before, BDS is just a way of pressuring Israel. Nobody in his right mind really expects it'll lead to the "dissolution" of Israel.

[skinster]

[noir]

Dlt

[Zionist Nationalist]

Spinster spilling false propoganda again.

Jews wont stop supporting Israel and Muslims wont stop supporting "Palestine"
thats how it is

[noir]

Achinoam Nini

A year ago:

JNF Canada drops event over singer Noa’s alleged BDS support

http://www.timesofisrael.com/jnf-canada ... s-support/


Today:

"Post Zionist" Israeli Singer Complains: BDS Boycotting Me

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/global/ ... 017/06/05/

[skinster]

Spinster spilling false propoganda again.

Jews wont stop supporting Israel and Muslims wont stop supporting "Palestine"
thats how it is

If you could spend a minute to click on the link you would see that the report came from a pro-Israel group and is reported in The Times of Israel.

American Jews are starting to care less for Israel. They shut down the annual AIPAC conference this year.

I liked how that report said the more American Jews learn about Israel, the less they support it.

[skinster]

Israel planned to blow up the Sinai desert with a nuclear bomb before they invaded surrounding countries in 1967:

‘Last Secret’ of 1967 War: Israel’s Doomsday Plan for Nuclear Display

On the eve of the Arab-Israeli war, 50 years ago this week, Israeli officials raced to assemble an atomic device and developed a plan to detonate it atop a mountain in the Sinai Peninsula as a warning to Egyptian and other Arab forces, according to an interview with a key organizer of the effort that will be published Monday.

The secret contingency plan, called a “doomsday operation” by Itzhak Yaakov, the retired brigadier general who described it in the interview, would have been invoked if Israel feared it was going to lose the 1967 conflict. The demonstration blast, Israeli officials believed, would intimidate Egypt and surrounding Arab states — Syria, Iraq and Jordan — into backing off.

Israel won the war so quickly that the atomic device was never moved to Sinai. But Mr. Yaakov’s account, which sheds new light on a clash that shaped the contours of the modern Middle East conflict, reveals Israel’s early consideration of how it might use its nuclear arsenal to preserve itself.

“It’s the last secret of the 1967 war,” said Avner Cohen, a leading scholar of Israel’s nuclear history who conducted many interviews with the retired general.
Continue reading the main story

Mr. Yaakov, who oversaw weapons development for the Israeli military, detailed the plan to Dr. Cohen in 1999 and 2000, years before he died in 2013 at age 87.

“Look, it was so natural,” said Mr. Yaakov, according to a transcription of a taped interview. “You’ve got an enemy, and he says he’s going to throw you to the sea. You believe him.”

“How can you stop him?” he asked. “You scare him. If you’ve got something you can scare him with, you scare him.”

Israel has never acknowledged the existence of its nuclear arsenal, in an effort to preserve “nuclear ambiguity” and forestall periodic calls for a nuclear-free Middle East. In 2001, Mr. Yaakov was arrested, at age 75, on charges that he had imperiled the country’s security by talking about the nuclear program to an Israeli reporter, Ronen Bergman, whose work was censored. At various moments, American officials, including former President Jimmy Carter long after he left office, have acknowledged the existence of the Israeli program, though they have never given details.

A spokesman for the Israeli Embassy in Washington said the Israeli government would not comment on Mr. Yaakov’s role.

If the Israeli leadership had detonated the atomic device, it would have been the first nuclear explosion used for military purposes since the United States’ attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki 22 years earlier.

The plan had a precedent: The United States considered the same thing during the Manhattan Project, as the program’s scientists hotly debated whether to set off a blast near Japan in an effort to scare Emperor Hirohito into a quick surrender. The military vetoed the idea, convinced that it would not be enough to end the war.

According to Mr. Yaakov, the Israeli plan was code-named Shimshon, or Samson, after the biblical hero of immense strength. Israel’s nuclear deterrence strategy has long been called the “Samson option” because Samson brought down the roof of a Philistine temple, killing his enemies and himself. Mr. Yaakov said he feared that if Israel, as a last resort, went ahead with the demonstration nuclear blast in Egyptian territory, it could have killed him and his commando team.

Dr. Cohen, a professor at the Middlebury Institute of International Studies at Monterey in California and the author of “Israel and the Bomb” and “The Worst-Kept Secret,” described the idea behind the atomic demonstration as giving “the prime minister an ultimate option if everything else failed.” Dr. Cohen, who was born in Israel and educated in part in the United States, has pushed the frontiers of public discourse on a fiercely hidden subject: how Israel became an unacknowledged nuclear power in the 1960s.

On Monday, the Nuclear Proliferation International History Project of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars in Washington — where Dr. Cohen is a global fellow — is releasing on a special website a series of documents related to the atomic plan. The project maintains a digital archive of his work known as the Avner Cohen Collection. (President Trump’s proposed budget calls for the elimination of all federal funding for the center, which Congress created as a living memorial to Wilson.)

It has long been known that Israel, fearful for its existence, rushed to complete its first atomic device on the eve of the Arab-Israeli war. But the planned demonstration remained secret in a country where it is taboo to discuss even half-century-old nuclear plans, and where fears persist that Iran will eventually obtain a nuclear weapon, despite its deal with world powers.

Shimon Peres, the former Israeli president and prime minister who died last year, hinted at the plan’s existence in his memoirs. He referred to an unnamed proposal that “would have deterred the Arabs and prevented the war.”

At the time of the 1967 war, the world’s main nuclear powers were observing an accord known as the Partial Test Ban Treaty. To curb radiation hazards, it prohibited all test detonations of nuclear arms except for those conducted underground. That Israel considered an open explosion was a measure of its desperation.

“The goal,” Mr. Yaakov says on the transcribed tape, “was to create a new situation on the ground, a situation which would force the great powers to intervene, or a situation which would force the Egyptians to stop and say, ‘Wait a minute, we didn’t prepare for that.’ The objective was to change the picture.”

Dr. Cohen said he struck up a relationship with Mr. Yaakov after he published “Israel and the Bomb” in 1998. He interviewed him for hours in the summer and fall of 1999 and in early 2000, always in Hebrew and mainly in Midtown Manhattan, where the former general lived.

Those interviews paint a picture of Israel’s recognition in the early 1960s that it needed a crash program to get the bomb. In 1963, Mr. Yaakov, a freshly minted colonel with engineering degrees from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and from Technion, the Israel Institute of Technology, became the senior liaison officer between the Israel Defense Forces and the country’s civilian defense units, including the project to make an atom bomb.

As Mr. Yaakov recounted the story, in May 1967, as tensions rose with Egypt over its decision to close the Straits of Tiran between the Gulf of Aqaba and the Red Sea, he was half a world away, visiting the RAND Corporation in California. He was suddenly summoned back to Israel. With it clear that war was imminent, Mr. Yaakov said, he initiated, drafted and promoted a plan aimed at detonating a nuclear device in the sparsely populated Eastern Sinai Desert in a display of force.

The site chosen for the proposed explosion was a mountaintop about 12 miles from an Egyptian military complex at Abu Ageila, a critical crossroads where, on June 5, Ariel Sharon commanded Israeli troops in a battle against the Egyptians. (Mr. Sharon later became prime minister, and died in 2014.)

The plan, if activated by order of the prime minister and military chief of staff, was to send a small paratrooper force to divert the Egyptian Army in the desert area so that a team could lay preparations for the atomic blast. Two large helicopters were to land, deliver the nuclear device and then create a command post in a mountain creek or canyon. If the order came to detonate, the blinding flash and mushroom cloud would have been seen throughout the Sinai and Negev Deserts, and perhaps as far away as Cairo.

It is impossible to know what the extent of any casualties might have been. That would have depended on such unknowns as the size of the weapon, the population density of the region and the direction of the wind on the day of the detonation.

Mr. Yaakov described a helicopter reconnaissance flight he made with Israel Dostrovsky, the first director general of the Israel Atomic Energy Commission, the civilian arm of the bomb program. The helicopter had to turn back after the pilots learned that Egyptian jets were taking off, perhaps to intercept them. “We got very close,” Mr. Yaakov recalled. “We saw the mountain, and we saw that there is a place to hide there, in some canyon.”

On the eve of the war, Mr. Yaakov said, he was filled with the same doubts that had gnawed at the American scientists during the Manhattan Project. Would the bomb explode? Would he survive the blast?

He never got to find out. Israel defeated three Arab armies, gained territory four times its original size and became the region’s foremost military power using conventional arms.

Nonetheless, Mr. Yaakov continued to lobby for an atomic demonstration to make clear the country’s new status as a nuclear power. But the idea went nowhere. “I still think to this day that we should have done it,” he told Dr. Cohen.

During a visit to Israel, a year after telling his story to Dr. Cohen in New York, where he had worked as a venture capitalist after having played a key role in the founding of Israel’s technology industry, Mr. Yaakov was arrested on charges of “high espionage” that carried a maximum penalty of life behind bars. The exact charges were a mystery, and he was put on a secret trial.

“We see this as a very sad story of a person who dedicates his life to the security of Israel and ends up caught in a huge story that gets blown out of proportion and jeopardizes his reputation, his career, his legacy, everything,” Jack Chen, one of his lawyers, told The New York Times at the time.


It turned out that the charges centered on his conversations with the Israeli reporter, whose account of the 1967 plan was censored by the military. Mr. Yaakov was found guilty of handing over secret information without authorization, the lesser of the charges against him. He was given a two-year suspended sentence.

The Israeli newspaper Haaretz, in its obituary of Mr. Yaakov, said he had never fully recovered from his legal ordeal and, during his final days, bitterly discussed its details with fellow retired officers.

Dr. Cohen said he and Mr. Yaakov continued to get together long after the interviews and the secret trial — for instance, in a restaurant in Tel Aviv around 2009. He said he had promised Mr. Yaakov he would find the right time and the right place to make his story public. Now, he said, on the 50th anniversary of the war — with Mr. Yaakov and so many other witnesses long dead — it seemed like the right time.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/03/worl ... .html?_r=2

[Zionist Nationalist]

So what? it was a plan in cease things would go wrong and the nuke was planned to be dropped in a non inhabited area to deter Egypt from invading

during the cold war all countries had plans to drop nukes on each other