[ThirdTerm]

“The thesis according to which the danger of genocide hung over us in June 1967, and according to which Israel was fighting for her very physical survival, was nothing but a bluff which was born and bred after the war,” declared Gen. Matituahu Peled, chief of logistical command during the war and one of 12 members of Israel’s General Staff, in March 1972.

The concentration of Egyptian forces in the Sinai Peninsula was the immediate cause of the Six Day War in 1967. But it was actually false intelligence from the Soviets that Israel was massing troops to attack Syria which made Nasser to send four brigades to the Sinai Peninsula. The Soviets were instrumental in triggering the war.

The Soviet Union played a crucial role in arming the Arab states and instigating the Six-Day War.

Initially supportive of Israel at the time of its founding, by the early 1950s the Soviets no longer regarded the Zionist state as useful for extending their influence into the Middle East. Transferring their support to Arab side, the Soviets took on the role of armorer for both Syria and Egypt, supplying them with modern tanks, aircraft and later missiles. The Egyptian and Syrian armed forces primarily used Soviet weapons during the 1967 war and employed tactics developed by the Soviets.

The Soviet Union exerted a troublesome influence on the events leading up to the war by feeding Arab suspicions about Israel. This culminated in the delivery to the Syrians and Egyptians of a false alert on May 13 that Israel had massed troops near the Israeli-Syrian border in preparation for an attack on Syria.

http://www.sixdaywar.org/content/soviets.asp

[abu afak]

Better and more honest in determining what happened, than a single uncontexted quote, is a coherent chronology, along with All the Arab leaders statements.
Excerpted from:
http://www.peacefaq.com/sixdaywar.html
Link expired, Now seen here: http://arabterrorism.tripod.com/FAQ/war1967.html

May 14, 1967: Egypt's President Gamal Nasser demands the withdrawal of United Nations force--established in 1957 as an international "guarantee" of safety for Israel--from the Sinai peninsula.
The UN meekly obeys; the United States and Britain fail to rouse the Security Council to take action.

(abu afak note: Strange move for someone playing defense and not itself planning attack)


May 15: Three Egyptian army divisions and 600 tanks roll into the Sinai. World community does nothing.

May 17: Cairo Radio's Voice of the Arabs: "All Egypt is now prepared to plunge into total war which will put an end to Israel."

May 18: Voice of the Arabs announces: "As of today, there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel. We shall exercise patience no more. We shall not complain any more to the UN about Israel. The sole method we shall apply against Israel is a total war which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence."


May 18: Nasser announces blockade of Straits of Tiran in the Red Sea, severing Israel's southern maritime link to the outside world. Israel considers the closure an act of war.
(US President Lyndon Johnson later says: "If a single act of folly was more Responsible for this explosion than any other it was the arbitrary and Dangerous announced decision that the Straits of Tiran would be closed.")


May 20: Syria's defence minister (ex-president) Hafez el-Assad says: "Our forces are now ready not only to repulse the aggression but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united ..."

May 27: Nasser: "Our basic objection will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight."

May 30: Nasser : "The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel."

May 30: Jordan's King Hussein signs a five-year mutual defence pact with Egypt and the two set up a joint command, making clear its stance in any future conflict.

My 31: Egyptian newspaper Al Akhbar reports: "Under terms of the military agreement signed with Jordan, Jordanian artillery, co-ordinated with the forces of Egypt and Syria, is in a position to cut Israel in two ..."

May 31: Iraqi President Rahman Aref announces: "This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear--to wipe Israel off the map."

June 4: Iraq joins Nasser's military alliance against Israel.

June 5: Six Day War begins: Israeli Airforce attacks airfields in Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq.
...

[Suntzu]

Better and more honest in determining what happened is a coherent chronology, along with some leaders quotes.
Excerpted from:
http://www.peacefaq.com/sixdaywar.html
Link expired, Now seen here: http://arabterrorism.tripod.com/FAQ/war1967.html

So how did the play out?

[stephen50right]

The Palestinians wish to change the old saying about war, "To the loser go the spoils"

[MadMonk]

All nations are born in blood, all sides in a war believes in its own propaganda.

Israel is no exception to this, the differences lies to the largest extent with timing. Just a few years after the worst war humanity has ever created, there was little appetite for the rhetoric which led to it again.

The Six-Day War was not an offensive or defensive war as such. It was both, and only a small skirmish in a much larger war that started a very long time ago. One wishes that someday, one could move on from the memory and live in the present, but we are all guilty of that to a certain extent (we are what we experience and cope with it).

Present day Israel might be different place today than in 1967 but perhaps the changes were more cosmetic than real. Given what the civilian population has been forced to live through, I can hardly blame them.

Fun fact of the day; which two modern nation-states have fought the most wars in history?

That would be Sweden and Denmark! (11 wars, 1521-1814)

Time eventually heals most wounds, it is only a question of how long it takes and the price paid to reach there...

[MememyselfandIJK]

[stephen50right]

Israel is hardly representative of all Jews. Thank goodness for that

You're wrong about that for those who consider themselves to be religious Jews.

[starman2003]

Better and more honest in determining what happened, than a single uncontexted quote, is a coherent chronology, along with All the Arab leaders statements.

That was mere rhetoric for internal political consumption in arab states and the arab world. The truth is that all arab forces were deployed defensively and Nasser had no intention of starting a war.

Zionist Nationalist wrote:

Israel was too fragile back then ....and could be crushed on a combined mass invasion of Arab armies.

Absurd! At the time, the US Joint Chiefs of Staff concluded that Israel would win no matter what happened.

I came up with an alternate history in which the Egyptian army did its best in '67:

http://starvisions.blogspot.com/2012/06 ... -1967.html

Even in a best case scenario essentially all they could've done was repel the Israeli invasion of Sinai.

..Egyptian army today consists of mostly western arms even if they start a war with Israel they will run out of ammunition in a week...

I think they have enough industrial capacity to produce ammo and spare parts. Even Iraq, to a considerable degree, was able to do that in its '80s war with Iran.

[Zionist Nationalist]

I think they have enough industrial capacity to produce ammo and spare parts. Even Iraq, to a considerable degree, was able to do that in its '80s war with Iran.

but they dont produce any advanced ammunitiond like the hellfire missile

and in 67 Israel was not fighting only against Egypt. all its neighboring countries were in a defensive pact against Israel so there was a possibility of a combined attack which the IDF would have it much harder than in 73 since there was no strategic territory that would protect the mainland

[abu afak]

Better and more honest in determining what happened, than a single uncontexted quote, is a coherent Chronology, along With All the Arab leaders statements.

That was mere rhetoric for internal political consumption in arab states and the arab world. The truth is that all arab forces were deployed defensively and Nasser had no intention of starting a war.

1. There are quotes from people like the Iraqi leader and others that were Not "defensive". Wiping out Israel is not "defensive."
2. I Offered a Chronology of critical ACTIONS not just quotes.
No response from you.
Disingenuous/inadequate reply.
`

[MememyselfandIJK]

[stephen50right]

Not all jews are religious jews. Its basic logic.

There are those with Jewish surnames who are atheists and agnostics, usually leftists, and usually against Israel. They are of Jewish blood but do not practice the religion.

I have never known a religious Jew, who practices Judaism, to be against Israel. There's probably a few exceptions out there, but I'd have to question their rationality.

[abu afak]

Not all jews are religious jews. Its basic logic.

As to your last two posts:
Israel IS "representative of Jews".
Israel is "the Jewish state."
If one wants to insert the Strawman/superlative "ALL Jews", that's an attempt to separate Jews from Israel by raising the bar to impossible/100% height.

As to Religiosity.
One doesn't have to be a religious Jew to support the Jewish state. Not even close.
Israel is a Secular State founded by 'Zionists', a Secular movement, with religious Opposition. To this day the Few main groups of anti-Zionist Jews are Ultra-Orthodox groups like Neturei Karta, etc.
The other main opposition is from Leftist/Chomsky Jews, and off-the-deep-end leftist anti-semites like Norman Finkelfuhrer.
Your Che avatar telegraphs your position/opposition without even having to read your one-line posts.
`

[MememyselfandIJK]

Israel IS "representative of Jews".

The counterexample is right in front of you.

There are those with Jewish surnames who are atheists and agnostics, usually leftists, and usually against Israel. They are of Jewish blood but do not practice the religion.

They are sill Jews though.

[Suntzu]

One more war in the Middle East . . .

. . . and the Jew will control it all.

[MememyselfandIJK]

One more war in the Middle East . . .. . . and the Jew will control it all.

Our Master Plan... MWAHAHAHA!!!

► Show Spoiler

Oops, did I just let that slip?

[skinster]

The third part of the interview with Norman Finkelstein. The first part is the best thing to watch to uncover all the propaganda surrounding the 6-day "war". It's on the first page of this thread.

[danholo]

Thanks for the videos. Finkelstein's scholarship is unquestionably good and probably unparalleled as he is a bit fanatical about the subject.

The only way to survive in that region was to turn the tide of power in your favor.

Unfortunately Israel inherited a problem that is a major setback in itself.

[starman2003]

but they dont produce any advanced ammunitiond like the hellfire missile

If Egypt were to change its policy, with financial help from richer arabs, it would be easy to obtain arms from Russia, France etc.

and in 67 Israel was not fighting only against Egypt. all its neighboring countries were in a defensive pact against Israel so there was a possibility of a combined attack which the IDF would have it much harder than in 73 since there was no strategic territory that would protect the mainland

I reiterate: in '67 the US Joint Chiefs concluded Israel would win no matter what happened. Even with the bulk of Israel's forces fighting in Sinai, there was still adequate strength to take the West Bank and Golan. The arabs couldn't even defend themselves.

abu afak wrote:

"...quotes from people like the Iraqi leader and others that were Not "defensive". Wiping out Israel is not "defensive."

I reiterate: That was just rhetoric for internal arab consumption. The arabs had no chance whatsoever of wiping out Israel. And they knew it which is why their forces were deployed defensively.

danholo wrote:

..or am I incorrect?

Finkelstein is one of the greatest and most courageous scholars around today. We all know there were arab dictators who disliked Israel but their means of doing much about it were woefully inadequate. In other words, their desires were essentially irrelevant whereas Israel was far better able to achieve its ambitions at the expense of the other side. Finkelstein's focus on Israel isn't a distortion but a rectification of distortion. The real problem isn't a "threat" to Israel; it was always far better able to threaten, or abuse.

[danholo]

Edited my post because by the end of his first video he touches upon the subject in a way I mentioned in removed part.