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Political issues and parties in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.

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By Tailz
#14838626
Haaretz wrote:Netanyahu Vows to Never Remove Israeli Settlements From West Bank: 'We're Here to Stay, Forever'
'We will deepen our roots, build, strengthen and settle,' Netanyahu tells settlers at event marking 50 years to Israel's occupation of the West Bank
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared Monday that he will not evacuate Israeli settlements in the West Bank.

"We are here to stay, forever," the prime minister said at an event in the settlement of Barkan, commemorating the 50th anniversary of Israel's occupation of the West Bank.

"There will be no more uprooting of settlements in the land of Israel. It has been proven that it does not help peace," he said. "We've uprooted settlements. What did we get? We received missiles. It will not happen anymore.

"And there's another reasons that we will look after this place, because it looks after us. In light of everything that is occurring around us, we can just imagine the result," he said, citing threats to Israel's Ben Gurion International Airport and a main highway that runs along the border with the West Bank.

"So we will not fold. We are guarding Samaria against those who want to uproot us. We will deepen our roots, build, strengthen and settle," he said, using the Jewish name for part of the West Bank.

The prime minister has made similar pledges in the past. “I have no intention of evacuating any settlement or uprooting any Israeli,” he said in a January 2014 briefing for Israeli reporters between his meetings with then-U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry in Davos, Switzerland. “The days of bulldozers uprooting Jews are behind us, not ahead of us,” he said in an interview with the Maariv daily in January 2013.

Settlements are one of the core issues in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The issue reached headlines only last week, as part of U.S. attempts to restart the peace process, when Donald Trump's senior adviser Jared Kushner met with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

Palestinians are still seeking a pledge of support from the Trump administration for the creation of a Palestinian state alongside Israel - the foundation of U.S. Middle East policy for the past two decades. The last round of peace talks between the two sides collapsed in 2014.

For his part, Netanyahu faces pressure from right-wing coalition partners not to give ground on Jewish settlement building in occupied territory that Palestinians seek for an independent state. The settlement issue contributed to the breakdown of negotiations three years ago.

Most countries consider settlement activity illegal and an obstacle to peace. Israel disagrees, citing biblical, historical and political connections to the land - many of which the Palestinians also claim - as well as security interests.

Education Minister Naftali Bennet also spoke at the event, attended by a few thousand residents of the surrounding settlements, saying "we shouldn't need permits, building in Judea and Samaria should be unrestricted. The freedom to build in our country."

Netanyahu added that "it's simply wonderful to see the developments here. I remember when we came to Barkan and we saw the vineyards, we saw the grapes, we stomped on the grapes – but today there are new grapes here. In the [settlement of] Tapuach, there's high-tech fruits, and this industry is ripe. We are working to advance industry, employment, water, tourism, public diplomacy and to fight against organizations calling for a boycott.

"We are doing this for two reasons: the first reason is simple, this is the land of our forefathers. This is our country."

This was the third time this week that Netanyahu spoke inside the West Bank this year. Earlier this summer, he spoke at the stone laying ceremony of the ultra-Orthodox town of Betar Ilit, and at the cornerstone laying ceremony at Ariel University's department of medicine, which Sheldon Adelson also attended.
An estimated 450,000-500,000 Israelis live across the Green Line including the Jewish neighborhoods of East Jerusalem. A widespread consensus has emerged that any future agreement on a two-state solution should include some of the settlement blocs (anywhere from 2 to 5 percent of the area beyond the Green Line) within Israel’s permanent border. Some past and present Israeli officials cite security rationale, while others say that uprooting so many people from their homes is not a viable option. Israel, in exchange, would agree to swap a more-or-less equivalent amount of its own land with a future Palestinian state.

On display the state's commitment to Settlements. It is now inevitable that Israel will have to annex the West Bank and absorb it's population. The settler population is already at a size that withdrawal will be too expensive to undertake and case the collapse of the Israeli political house of cards. Let alone the possibility of a large enough population that would revolt against such a move.

Two state solution is kaput.
#14838644
Tailz wrote:On display the state's commitment to Settlements. It is now inevitable that Israel will have to annex the West Bank and absorb it's population. The settler population is already at a size that withdrawal will be too expensive to undertake and case the collapse of the Israeli political house of cards. Let alone the possibility of a large enough population that would revolt against such a move.

Two state solution is kaput.

I never thought a two state solution would work to bring peace from the beginning. And it is clear from the Holy Bible that God does not want the land divided. HalleluYah.
#14840137
Time for a one-state solution, innit.

Also, this isn't really news since everyone who's been paying attention knows Israelis planned to keep the settlements that they paid multi millions to create. :knife:
User avatar
By Ter
#14840197
Tailz wrote:"There will be no more uprooting of settlements in the land of Israel. It has been proven that it does not help peace," he said. "We've uprooted settlements. What did we get? We received missiles. It will not happen anymore.


Israel will never be overrun by the Islamic hordes.
Not by war, not by terrorism, not by boycotts and not by the demographic weapon.
#14840205
skinster wrote:Time for a one-state solution, innit.

Also, this isn't really news since everyone who's been paying attention knows Israelis planned to keep the settlements that they paid multi millions to create. :knife:

This stance is effectively a poisoned chalice that the Zionists are drinking from and waterboarding the Palestinians with. plus now that Netanyahu has made the statement public, it is now policy (this is why heads of state usually try to avoid making statements with true meaning, but it is a bit hard to misinterpret what was said). The Palestinians will not be able to ignore it, neither can other state actors.

Why a poisoned chalice for both? Simple, the statement lays bare the fact Israel has been insincere about peace negotiations in relation to the settlements (past and future). Also it marks that the Israeli's want to keep and expand settlements, which is going to lead to greater confrontations with Palestinians and ultimately a situation that Israel will have no other choice than to annex all of the West Bank and its Palestinian population. Which will add 3.76 million Palestinians to the State of Israel (welcome to the demographic problem). Now the Israelis may try and create some kind of second class citizenship for those Palestinians in an attempt to keep them as "external citizens" but that is ultimately going to lead to civil rights protests.

Meanwhile on the Palestinian side of the fence, say goodbye to Palestinian independence in the West Bank. Fatah is going to cease to exist as without the West Bank it has nothing in the Gaza Strip. Plus, more settlers, more IDF soldiers, which more more harassment by those settlers and more harsh measures to make life uncomfortable for them by the IDF and civil administration in the hope they will go away. This in turn will spur more fanaticism in those who want to resist and those effected by Israeli oppression.

Ter wrote:Israel will never be overrun by the Islamic hordes.

Israel has already been overrun by its own religious fanatics. Plus Israel was not in danger of being overrun by an Islamic horde such as ISIS, who were just as much a threat to Palestinian Nationalism than they were to Israel. No, Israel's democracy will slowly cease to be as it erodes more and more civil rights of non-Jews.

Ter wrote:Not by war, not by terrorism, not by boycotts and not by the demographic weapon.

Death by settlements! Israel's own self made kryptonite!

Unless of course your in favour of Israel annexing the West Bank and expelling the Palestinians?
User avatar
By Ter
#14840209
Tailz wrote: the statement lays bare the fact Israel has been insincere about peace negotiations in relation to the settlements (past and future)

That is true and it was very clear, I could have told you that twenty years ago.
It is however also true that the Arabs were also insincere. They always wanted Israel to just disappear, by negotiating themselves out of a country and by the Arabs putting unacceptable conditions on the table (return of the refugees for instance)

Tailz wrote:Israel has already been overrun by its own religious fanatics.

True. Almost from the beginning of the Israeli State, the religious parties have had and unreasonable amount of political power because they were the kingmakers when government had to be formed.

The future is going to be ugly for all parties involved.
I do not feel comfortable in the discussions about the Arab-Israeli problem so unless I will be drunk or if significant development take place, I will not participate in the debates about Israel.
#14840257
Islamist propaganda. "One state" will be like this. Of course the Muslims who are fleeing their own shithole countries don't cate. The question is why Western "humanitarians" are championing this fascist cause.

#14840273
noir wrote:Islamist propaganda. "One state" will be like this. Of course the Muslims who are fleeing their own shithole countries don't cate. The question is why Western "humanitarians" are championing this fascist cause.

It is because they believe only white men in America that support Donald J. Trump can be fascist now.
#14840306
Tailz wrote:Why a poisoned chalice for both? Simple, the statement lays bare the fact Israel has been insincere about peace negotiations in relation to the settlements (past and future). Also it marks that the Israeli's want to keep and expand settlements, which is going to lead to greater confrontations with Palestinians and ultimately a situation that Israel will have no other choice than to annex all of the West Bank and its Palestinian population. Which will add 3.76 million Palestinians to the State of Israel (welcome to the demographic problem). Now the Israelis may try and create some kind of second class citizenship for those Palestinians in an attempt to keep them as "external citizens" but that is ultimately going to lead to civil rights protests.


And when those protests take place, liberal-zionists like you will come along and talk about how the violence of the natives is as bad as the settler-colony :D , even though that's clearly not true.
#14840341
It's not a personal taste for losers. Many British Muslims came from the Deobandi and Barelwi movements on the Indian sub-continent, and brought with them traditions of a supra-national Muslim identity. Through Palestine cause, these peoples and communities are looking to affirm their presence on the international scene, to organize their own solidarity, and to give back historical visibility to the mother community (the Ummah). Also, they came from institutionalized apartheid racist state. Christians living in Pak-Punjab area are regularly murdered, without a single prosecution. This is where 80% UK Pakistanis come from. Anti Jewish racism (BDS) is natural.
#14840524
Does Yahweh want to divide the land of Israel and give a portion of it to the 'Palestinians' — or anybody else — besides the Jewish people?" . Is it possible that Yahweh would want to share His land with other nations? Yahweh is very concerned about His land. He is also concerned for His holy city Jerusalem. Yahweh spoke of the judgment against the nations for dividing His land:

"I will gather all the nations, and bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat. Then I will enter into judgment with them there on behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations; and they have divided up My land" (Joel 3:2).

Warnings!-Don't Divide Israel, Rabbi Kaduri, Blood Moons, New Madrid Fault, End Times!

Published on Mar 16, 2014



UN "Dividing the land of Israel"

Published on Dec 27, 2016

#14840771
Tailz wrote:On display the state's commitment to Settlements. It is now inevitable that Israel will have to annex the West Bank and absorb it's population. The settler population is already at a size that withdrawal will be too expensive to undertake and case the collapse of the Israeli political house of cards. Let alone the possibility of a large enough population that would revolt against such a move.

Two state solution is kaput.


Good, there cannot be a two state solution. Muslims cannot live in peace with anyone who holds different beliefs. Any chance they get they will subjugate or destroy anyone who is of a different belief. This is the case in Lebanon, in Syria, in Iraq, in Egypt, Algeria etc etc. The only solution is a one Jewish state, with a small Muslim population. the rest best be going somewhere else and let their Muslim brothers help them out perhaps.
#14840928
Ter wrote:That is true and it was very clear, I could have told you that twenty years ago.

I agree, but I think prior the Age of Trump it was an open secret, that could be refuted because the settler population was not at the level it is now and there had been the withdrawal from Gaza as an example "that it could be done." And the Israeli's and Palestinians were talking and even Israel still had withdrawal some settlements on the table (although wishing to keep the settlements behind the wall).

But now the negotiations are dead in the water, neither side will talk to the other. The Israeli government is committed to the settlements, its political power base is linked to the settlements, the settlement political groups although not powerful enough to be in power, are king makers.

Ter wrote:It is however also true that the Arabs were also insincere. They always wanted Israel to just disappear, by negotiating themselves out of a country and by the Arabs putting unacceptable conditions on the table (return of the refugees for instance)

I disagree on your reading of how the negotiations flowed. The right of return has been on the table since day one, it was not a new feature inserted as an unacceptable condition. The Israeli's primarily played the role of the negotiating partner constantly putting forth the options to modify the Palestinian position which were: Right of Return, Territory for a State, Jerusalem as a Capital.
It was the Palestinians that always said "No" to the options put forth by the Israeli's constantly presenting different maps of what settlements they wanted to keep and the form of territory swaps, while the issue of the right of return had been effectively resolved with a partial return and compensation for the rest. The Israeli's were the ones putting forth the unacceptable conditions that the Palestinians constantly were refusing. Thus why the Israeli's talked about the negotiations lacking a partner for peace, because the Palestinians constantly turned down their offers. Or statements about no preconditions because the Palestinians wanted the Israeli's to stop building and expanding settlements. Settlements that constantly changed the form of those Israeli negotiating maps.

Must be noted, the Israeli's want the Palestinians to disappear as well. Their both duplicates on that score.

Ter wrote:True. Almost from the beginning of the Israeli State, the religious parties have had and unreasonable amount of political power because they were the kingmakers when government had to be formed.

The religious parties got their foot in the door early on in the founding of the Zionist movement.

Ter wrote:The future is going to be ugly for all parties involved.
I do not feel comfortable in the discussions about the Arab-Israeli problem so unless I will be drunk or if significant development take place, I will not participate in the debates about Israel.

Understandable. I've got a friend who used to be able to discuss the conflict in a calm, rational and objective manner. Now I can't even mention it in his presence because he just loses his shit.

Noir wrote:Islamist propaganda. "One state" will be like this. Of course the Muslims who are fleeing their own shithole countries don't cate. The question is why Western "humanitarians" are championing this fascist cause.

The West does not champion a fascist cause, people such as myself from the West take issue with a state that champions itself as the only democracy in the middle-east, a democracy that they say holds dear Western values justice, law, morals and ethics. Yet is more than willing to throwing those values out the window whenever those values don't suit their colonial agenda.

While us evil Westerners have denounced Palestinian terrorism, along with the indoctrination of anti-semitism.

Skinster wrote:And when those protests take place, liberal-zionists like you will come along and talk about how the violence of the natives is as bad as the settler-colony :D , even though that's clearly not true.

While folks like you can see no difference between resistance and terrorism. The Palestinians can engage in resistance while also not engaging in terrorism.

Oxymoron wrote:Good, there cannot be a two state solution.

Well I don't see how a viable two state solution is going to come about now. Israel is going to have to annex the West Bank and the 3.76 million Palestinians to the State of Israel. Sure the Israelis may try and absorb these people as some kind of "permanent residents" in an attempt to keep them as "external citizens."

But you are going to get your wish Oxymoron, you just may not like how it is going to be granted...

Oxymoron wrote:Muslims cannot live in peace with anyone who holds different beliefs. Any chance they get they will subjugate or destroy anyone who is of a different belief. This is the case in Lebanon, in Syria, in Iraq, in Egypt, Algeria etc etc. The only solution is a one Jewish state, with a small Muslim population. the rest best be going somewhere else and let their Muslim brothers help them out perhaps.

I disagree to an extent. Muslim societies have a terrible track record for coexistence. But this is not to say it is not possible, Israel itself has a very healthy Muslim population that is living peacefully within it, so too many other nations around the globe. Even the great satan America has a muslim population that is very well adapted to American values. But one must agree, Islam is not the most productive when it comes to coexistence - certainly with progressive western values such as gay rights, rights for women, etc... But the growth of Islamic scholars who want to re-envision Islam is growing, which is why I think the "push back" against that trend is so violent.
#14840958
Tailz wrote:While folks like you can see no difference between resistance and terrorism. The Palestinians can engage in resistance while also not engaging in terrorism.


I think you're confusing me with you, since I can see the difference between resistance and terrorism; the terrorism comes from the violent military occupation and blockade of Palestinian territory, whereas the resistance comes from the natives living under those systems.

Also, thanks to you and Ter for sharing how you were aware for decades that the negotiations and everything since was based on bullshit. I'd expect it from Ter, but from you, I wonder why you were shilling liberal-zionism, when you knew all along that Israel had no intention for peace.
#14840971
If Israel made peace with all Muslims, then would Israel not get pity and help from the US? I think that Israel is partly unwilling to play nice because they know that the unruly ones get all the attention and they love the attention. The US is such a humanitarian country when it comes to defending and helping smaller countries.
#14840974
Israel already gets much more than "pity and help from the US", they are supported with financial and military aid and supported politically all of the time. It is actually for these reasons that Israel is "unwilling to play nice".

The US is not a humanitarian country, Misty, it's the current empire causing much death and destruction all over the world. The humanitarian shit on display is minute in comparison.
#14840986
Tailz wrote:While folks like you can see no difference between resistance and terrorism. The Palestinians can engage in resistance while also not engaging in terrorism.

There is such a thing as non-violent resistance. Do you remember how Martin Luther King Jr. led non-violent protests in the Civil Rights movement, while many of the other blacks were promoting violence and terrorism.

Most of the Palestinian resistance has been violence and terrorism

The Truth on Israel Palestine Conflict



1400 shocking years of Islam



Jerusalem - Jews and Muslims

#14841344
Hindsite wrote:There is such a thing as non-violent resistance. Do you remember how Martin Luther King Jr. led non-violent protests in the Civil Rights movement, while many of the other blacks were promoting violence and terrorism.

Most of the Palestinian resistance has been violence and terrorism

The bulk of the resistance against Israel conducted by Palestinians is non-violent. The violent resistance is what grabs the headlines tho, as it sells newspapers to splash footage of a stabbing or shooting, than it does to show footage of a protest march or the footage from NGO provided Cameras.
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