[skinster]

We may be victims of the Israeli regime, but we are just as proud of our choice to fight for our cause, despite the known cost. We knew where this path would lead us, but our identity, as a people and as individuals, is planted in the struggle, and draws its inspiration from there. Beyond the suffering and daily oppression of the prisoners, the wounded and the killed, we also know the tremendous power that comes from belonging to a resistance movement; the dedication, the love, the small sublime moments that come from the choice to shatter the invisible walls of passivity. I don’t want to be perceived as a victim, and I won’t give their actions the power to define who I am and what I’ll be. I choose to decide for myself how you will see me. We don’t want you to support us because of some photogenic tears, but because we chose the struggle and our struggle is just. This is the only way that we’ll be able to stop crying one day.

[skinster]

If indeed this is what he "suggested", and the translations are correct, even then it is just one guy saying something. How many Arabs are saying all the Jews should be killed ? It is a meaningless point.

It is clear the journalist was suggesting rape or torture.

The journalist who said it isn't "just one guy" but a popular journalist in Israel. There was something of a backlash against him and a lot of support. It is not a meaningless point when this is an indicator of what takes place in Israeli society, something people should look into while they're running their mouths supporting this extremely rightwing state under Nethanyahu, that has denied Palestinians a right to their own state - or really any rights - and is very open about taking over the entirety of Palestine. The almost amusing thing is that in Israeli society, they're more honest in their media about what they're about than Western MSM is about the same.

This comes from one of your highly biased web sites, dare I say Fake News? It also depends what you call torture. Being in a cell because you threw rocks at passing motor vehicles is not torture per se.

Yes there are biased websites. You posted from one, unless you can prove how the The Times of Israel is not biased.

Still, if you think the Mondoweiss website (run by a Jew) that had an article (written by an Israeli Jew) who talked about Ahed Tamimi being hit first by the soldier that was on her property, is "fake news", I'd like you to explain how.

If you think the figures for Palestinian children who've been tortured and sexually abused in Israeli prisons is false, feel free to prove that report wrong.

Also, I don't think you can be objective on the issue of Palestine when it's an obvious case of the oppressor vs the oppressed, the colonizers vs the colonizers, those with power and those without. zionists try to compare the situation between the two people as if both have armies when only one side does. The MSM continued that trend of this being two fair sides in dispute when reality dictates this is all bullshit. You either stand with the oppressed or support the colonizers. This is your option. racist colonialist zionism or anti-racist struggle for freedom for the living natives of Palestine.

I won't bother to address your weird defense of torture for things that did not happen.

Cold cell ? In Israel? That is a hilarious accusation. It is hot over there.
And what is the problem with cameras? She and her family were using cameras all the time. Those cameras are there in her prison cell for everybody's protection. Her protection as well as the prison guards. Otherwise she (and you) would claim she was abused or worse.
Everything is allowed to accuse Israelis, right?
Tsk, tsk.

Wow, you don't half talk a load of shit Ter.

In a nutshell, all you have is a sad defence for racist colonization, murder, ethnic cleansing and dispossession. Must be weird to be okay and proud of that kind of disgusting stuff today, but so it goes.

[skinster]

A petition to free Ahed has got 275,000+ signatures so far. You are welcome to sign it here: https://secure.avaaz.org/campaign/en/free_ahed/?flfTYcb

[Oxymoron]

Lets follow Sharia law on this one and stone this bitch.

[Ter]

Palestinian girl who hit soldiers could get long sentence

RAMALLAH, West Bank — Israel’s military says a teenage Palestinian girl could face up to 14 years in prison after being indicted for allegedly assaulting a pair of Israeli soldiers outside her home.

Ahed Tamimi, 16, was charged this week by an Israeli military court after she was filmed in December pushing, kicking and slapping the soldiers, who stood by silently. Her father said the girl was upset after her 15-year-old cousin was shot in the head with a rubber bullet.

The widely shared video turned Tamimi into a Palestinian hero. In Israel, the footage sparked debate about the soldiers’ refusal to act.

The maximum sentence appears unlikely.

Her lawyer, Gaby Lasky, said Wednesday she doubts such a sentence is likely. She said sentencing for such an offense is usually “much, much lighter.”

from the Washington Post

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

In a nutshell, all you have is a sad defence for racist colonization, murder, ethnic cleansing and dispossession. Must be weird to be okay and proud of that kind of disgusting stuff today, but so it goes.

The only thing you do is repeat some slogans and insulting words.
You don't answer to any argument. I said the cameras are there in the prison cells to protect both the prisoner and the Prison staff. You call that torture. What gives ?
The way local Arabs lie about so-called torture and rape, it is important to keep cameras rolling. There are many videos of Arabs apparently wounded or dead who are seen walking around minutes later in the same clothes. Paliwood !

[skinster]

Another member of the Tamimi family has been killed.

This is the photo I took of Ahed Tamimi in May. I wasn’t going to post it because it’s not a great photo. But it does show her for what she is: a 16-year-old girl. Her 15-year-old cousin was maimed for life the day before her alleged “crime.” Now another 17-year-old cousin has been murdered by the Brownshirts who are purposively and strategically stealing their land and walling them into ghettoes as the “Judaization” of “Judea and Samaria” continues.

The 18-year-old son of my friend Iyad Burnat has just undergone surgery for his leg which was damaged by the Israelis soldiers that regularly attack their village of Bil’in. His 17-year-old son has just been jailed and charged, like Ahed, with multiple counts. His 3-year-old son witnessed the arrest.

As Ahed and other Palestinian minors face extended prison sentences for the “crime” of resisting their own ethnic cleansing, the only silver lining is that the pathology, inhumanity and racism of Israel is finally being exposed to the world. Ahed was not trying to physically injure the soldiers (clearly no amount of slapping on her part could have done that): she was trying to SHAME them. And in that she succeeded. When Israel has to jail a child for defending her home, they have already lost. Israel wears the mark of Cain: Israel has made the choice not to be its brother’s keeper. And Israel give way to a single democratic state for all inhabitants of the land, without regard to religion or ethnicity.

Please write Ahed Tamimi in HaSharon Prison, Ben Yehuda, PO Box 7, 40 330 Israel

[skinster]

Israeli prosecutors try to make Ahed Tamimi a terrorist
Ahed Tamimi was indicted by the Israeli military prosecutor on Monday, on five counts of assaulting security forces and throwing stones.

The five counts, as reported by Haaretz, include: “Threatening a soldier, attacking a soldier under aggravated circumstances, interfering with a soldier carrying out his duties, incitement, and throwing objects at individuals or property”.

My focus here is going to be on the not-so-obvious insertion in that list: “incitement”. While this may seem the least ‘physical’, I believe this is what, for Israeli Hasbara, will be the most important issue regarding Ahed Tamimi. Let me explain.

Those other issues listed would not easily be seen in the rest of the world as grave issues really – not ones that would justify long incarceration, certainly not for life, as Education Minister Bennett had suggested. While in Israel, throwing a stone can entail 20 years in prison, the rest of the world would find it hard to accept such harsh punishment (certainly for life!), and Israel’s PR would suffer.

“Interfering with a soldier carrying out his duties”? What, seriously? His duties of occupying her village, her house, shooting her cousin in the face? No, that wouldn’t stick. This is way too far from the UN General Assembly Resolution 3246 of 1974, which “Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, particularly armed struggle”. That resolution also legitimizes indirectly the throwing of stones, which, as Haaretz journalist Amira Hass writes, is “the birthright and duty of anyone subject to foreign rule”.

That principle also renders Ahed’s slap to the soldier to be a relatively benign form of resistance, as much as it may offend Israelis and endanger their sense of superiority. Was Ahed’s slap under “aggravated circumstances”? Surely the prosecution didn’t have in mind the aggravated circumstance that Ahed was in, with her cousin put in coma by a bullet to the face, on top of a long history of maiming, killing and torturing of several family relatives. No, all that means nothing – Ahed Tamimi was just a very naughty girl.

No, all that wouldn’t stick. But you know what would catch on? Terror. If it could somehow be construed that Ahed Tamimi is an aspiring terrorist, or that her words and actions led to terrorism, that would catch a lot of people both in Israel and elsewhere. Because clichés like “war on terror” are emotionally determinative for many people. And that’s why Ahed needs to be made a terrorist.

Just like with Marwan Barghouti. When Marwan Barghouti was captured by Israel in 2002 upon the direct orders of then Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, former Prime Minister Ehud Barak said:

“Have you lost your mind? What’s the story with Barghouti? If it’s part of your struggle against terrorism, it’s meaningless. But if it’s part of a grand plan to make him a future national leader of the Palestinians, then it’s a brilliant scheme, because what’s really missing in his résumé is direct affiliation with terrorism. He will fight for the leadership from inside prison, not having to prove a thing. The myth will grow constantly by itself.”

These words, with all their inherent mockery, could just as well be applied to Ahed Tamimi. Pretty much the same has already been said about Ahed, as for example by Uri Avnery in his piece titled “Joan of Arc in a West Bank Village” (Haaretz), subtitled “The Israeli army wants to punish Ahed Tamimi ‘so all should see and fear.’ Instead, Palestinian teenagers see the photos and think: I want to be like her.” Avnery:

“She’s 16, from a family of peasants in an isolated village. The foreign occupation outraged her, and she set out to fight it. Her actions excited her oppressed people, whose spirits rose from the depths of despair to renewed hope. She was captured by her occupiers, who imprisoned and prosecuted her. You’re probably thinking I mean 16-year-old Ahed Tamimi, who slapped the face of an Israel Defense Forces officer. But actually, I’m referring to Joan of Arc, known as “the maid of Orléans”, Avnery writes.

So how will Ahed, who has resisted her oppressor with her bare hands, and allegedly even with a stone – be made a terrorist? Through ‘incitement’. That’s the item we need to look at.

Let’s see how Haaretz cites the military prosecution on this count, quoting Ahed Tamimi from a live Facebook feed, with the prosecution’s translation:

“I hope everyone will participate in the protests, because that is the only solution to reach a result. Our strength is in our rocks and I hope that the entire world will unite to liberate Palestine because Trump announced a decision and they will need to bear responsibility for every response that will come from us – whether it is a stabbing attack, or a suicide bombing or throwing rocks, everyone needs to do something and unite in order for our message to reach those who want to liberate Palestine”.

Now, I have spent many hours yesterday trying to obtain the original live Facebook feed which is being quoted from*. As well, I have asked a few Arabic speaking friends to help with the translation of that cited passage**. I have cross checked the individual versions, and have reached a conclusion regarding the imprecision of the Israeli prosecution translation. Bear with me, this needs careful and slow analysis:

Putting aside what I would consider semantic differences in translation, the critical divergence appears in what the military prosecution translates as “stabbing attack, or a suicide bombing or throwing rocks”.

Here, both my contact’s versions (which they had not corroborated) translate what the prosecution refers to as “suicide bombings”, to “martyrdom operations” – taken from Ahed’s words (‘amaliyat istish’hadiya’, phonetically in Arabic). Now before making quick conclusions, let’s consider this carefully.

Imagine the translation was thus more exact, and went like this:

“Whether it is stabbing attacks, Martyrdom operations – or throwing rocks”.

First of all, Ahed was not necessarily suggesting that people engage in such operations, beyond, apparently, the one regarding the throwing of stones. In fact, her first proclamation that “our strength is in our rocks” suggests that. Furthermore, her words could arguably be pointing to the notion that Trump’s unilateral decision in favor of Israel and against Palestinians may itself be a cause for such more radical actions – ones which she would not necessarily advocate herself. So she could arguably be saying that Trump’s decision ‘could result in’ the actions she describes.

Now, does “martyrdom operations” necessarily mean “suicide bombings”, as the prosecution translated it? The Arabic term “Shahid”, meaning “martyr”, is a term that has a Muslim religious meaning as “one who bears witness”, but is also applied in the secular-nationalist sense of one that has died facing off the Israeli occupation. Consider, for example, that Ibrahim Abu Thuraya, who lost both his legs from Israeli fire in 2008 and who was killed by a sniper’s bullet to the head near the Gaza fence, is also a Shahid. He was in his wheelchair, with a flag, and by one account also had a slingshot. He was not a suicide bomber. But he was killed alongside several others whilst demonstrating against Trump’s declaration on Jerusalem. For Palestinians, even completely non-violent resistance can mean their death – their martyrdom.

Now, what if Ahed’s reference to “martyrdom operations” refers to “stabbing operations” as an extension? The translation is from her speech, so it could be written like this:

“stabbing operations (martyrdom operations), or throwing stones”.

Thus we need to consider “stabbing operations”. Are these always and necessarily acts of terror? By Israel’s legal precedence definitions, they are – regardless of whether the attacked is a soldier or a civilian. This, despite the fact, that according to the Council on Foreign Relations discussion on terrorism, “terrorism is aimed at civilians—not at military targets or combat-ready troops”. (See once again here).

We can see this interpretation in the case of the medic/killer Elor Azarya, when the court referred to the alleged stabber Abdel Fattah Al Sharif as “the terrorist Al Sharif”, consistently. This is despite the fact that eyewitnesses at the scene had claimed that it was not Al-Sharif who was the stabber (a second man, who was also shot dead) but rather a bystander. Others said that even if he was, he would have been attacking a combat-ready, protected and fully armed occupation soldier.

But in Israel all these distinctions are basically rendered meaningless. If the military prosecution against Ahed would translate the words “martyrdom operations” as ”martyrdom operations”, then its message would be weakened. Not only because it would be repeating the heroic notion of “martyrdom” (which Israel seeks to weaken), but also because the term has various meanings. Hence, the prosecution decided to go with an interpretation – not a translation – into “suicide bombings”.

Thus, the prosecution disseminates a code-word, which gets recycled in international media. For Israelis, “suicide bombing” triggers associations of exploding buses full of civilians. They get thrown back to the 2nd Initifada, and the distance from there to calling Ahed Tamimi a terrorist is conceptually small. And for Westerners, “suicide bombings” is associated with 9-11, and so they can be expected to react with revulsion at Ahed’s alleged words.

Finally, lest one thinks this is all really just semantic, consider this:

Israeli-Palestinian poet Dareen Tatour has been detained for over two years, in a case which revolves around her poem “Resist them”, and her usage of the word “Shahid” – “martyr”. That word has been a subject of huge controversy, involving various translators, and a dispute about whether it actually suggests any kind of incitement to terror, or not. The discussion has been ongoing, in court – around that very word. But the Israeli military prosecution is now getting past that discussion by substituting the words “suicide bombing”. Whatever Ahed actually said or meant, the misleading translation immediately gives Israel and the prosecution propaganda points in a supposed ‘war on terror’, and Ahed Tamimi is made a terrorist.
http://mondoweiss.net/2018/01/israeli-p ... ssion=true

[skinster]

There's a protest today at Grand Central at rush-hour for Ahed Tamimi and all Palestinian prisoners:

[danholo]

Oh that's so nice but when did New Yorkers care enough to stop and look?

[Suntzu]

Her cousin, same last name, was the first Palestinian of the year killed.

[Deutschmania]

BWWWAAAAAHH Paliwood productions. Holy Shit balls talk about comic relief!

She doesn’t look very Middle Eastern. You lot sure she isn’t a self hating Jew?

As I posted elsewhere in another thread here , at least most Palestinians , as they are known , are actually of Jewish lineage , whether or not they realize and choose to acknowledge it .

[noir]

Blame the spinless Israeli goverment for tolereting this evil family for so long



A German writer in a German owned Israeli paper

The 'pioneering' Tamimi family member who was "the first woman to participate in a suicide attack" is Ahlam Tamimi, the mastermind and facilitator of the 2001 Sbarro pizzeria bombing in Jerusalem that killed 15 people, including seven children and a pregnant woman, and injured some 130, with one young mother left in a permanent vegetative state.

In the summer of 2012, less than 20 years after the Tamimis had first tried to disrupt the peace process in 1993, Bassem Tamimi’s nephew Nizar Tamimi – who was involved in the murder of Haim Mizrahi –  married Ahlam Tamimi in Jordan. Both had been released in the deal to the free kidnapped Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit. Bassem Tamimi, his wife and his children attended the wedding. A video of the event shows Ahed on the stage with the terrorist couple, happily clapping to the music.

[skinster]

^ a response to that awful article:

Haaretz smears the Tamimi family to counter worldwide solidarity with 16-year-old Ahed

Promote the blood libel? Check. Glorify terrorism? Check. Celebrate Israeli deaths? Check. Ahed Tamimi and her family aren’t fighting for peace, and they’re not just fighting the occupation: They’re fighting to destroy Israel, and their fight is seasoned with Jew-hatred

~ Haaretz 1/4/18

That is how Petra Marquardt-Bigman begins her article published yesterday in Haaretz, Israel’s leading liberal news outlet.

Titled Ahed Tamimi and Her Family Aren’t the Palestinian Saints You Want Them to Be, the author builds a case against the entire Tamimi family and lays out a history rife with supposed Jew-hatred, terrorist-cheerleading, and overall anti-Israel and anti-peace naughtiness.

And just like with any bit of quasi-respectable modern-day trolling and professional bloggery, Marquardt-Bigman adorns it with a set of screenshots from Twitter (apparently now deleted), eye-witness accounts and videos as evidence for this malice.

As if extracted from a Hasbara manual or the syllabus of a PoliSci101 class on propaganda, the article uses an array of fear mongering techniques to present a decontextualized and one-sided narrative in which the Tamimis in general and Ahed in particular deserve everything that is coming to them at the hands of Israeli forces, and then some.

Nothing about the occupation or international law, zero words about the Tamimis’ many tragedies at the hands of Israeli soldiers, no mention of the entirety of the incident that led to Ahed’s arrest, i.e. the soldier’s shoving prior to Ahed’s notorious slap. The article exists in the Zionist reality in which the Jews (represented by the Israeli soldiers) were viciously hounded and attacked by a little Palestinian snake, enemy of the state number one and of the Jewish people, no less – Ahed Tamimi.

And it is an especially effective piece of propaganda for three reasons:

The piece was published in Haaretz, Israel’s leading liberal outlet, right after Israel indicted Ahed Tamimi with a range of offenses, including the grave charge of “incitement”. It is thus meant to quell any kind of Israeli and Jewish resistance to her charges and ongoing incarceration, which may last for many years, especially coming from liberals and centrists who comprise the majority of Haaretz’s readership.

In contrast to the blatantly misogynist coverage and outrageous statements made by Ben Caspit in the right-wing Ma’ariv media outlet about Ahed Tamimi herself, Marquardt-Bigman tries to tarnish the reputation of the entire Tamimi family, and by extension implicating Ahed. She does so by using an array of fear-mongering techniques, which include accusations of terrorism and Nazi sympathy. This technique mirrors Israel’s villainization of all Palestinians as “terrorists” , “snakes” and even “cancer”, while failing to present their resistance within its appropriate historical context and thus assume responsibility for the crimes of Zionism.
Marquardt-Bigman attempts to tarnish all of Ahed’s supporters as terrorist supporters by implicating pro-Palestinian Israeli activist Miko Peled. Notably, the author has a history of smearing Peled.

But Marquardt-Bigman is no stranger to attacking opponents of Israel and Zionism. In fact, she has made a career out of it. Typical of run-of-the-mill Hasbara propagandists, she frequently conflates anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism and regularly publishes articles flimsy in actual historical facts and rich in hyperbole and ad hominem attacks.

In a recent article published in The Algemeiner, she blames Max Blumenthal of having:

“…fans on neo-Nazi forums and many other outlets that cater to Jew-haters”.

But it is in fact Marquardt-Bigman, who toes the Zionist line that has served as inspiration for far-right groups in Europe and alt-right fascists in the United States such as Richard Spencer, who has called himself a “White Zionist”.

Her infatuation with Nazis is further expressed in the same piece, where she also goes after Columbia University historian Joseph Massad, who speaks with Blumenthal about the Zionist-Nazi collaboration in the 1930s known as the Haavara agreement. Marquardt-Bigman presents zero evidence to refute Massad’s claims, but instead goes on to call him a “Jew-baiting professor”, and maliciously twist his words, stating that:

“The obvious implication of Massad’s view is that it’s a pity that the Nazis killed only six million Jews — after all, if those evil Zionist Jews hadn’t escaped Europe on time and did whatever they could to enable others to join them, the Nazis might have succeeded in killing some more.”

The question is why is Haaretz, a supposedly liberal outlet, publishing a one-sided, decontextualized smear piece on the Tamimis by a known propagandist at this present time, i.e. when Ahed and Nariman Tamimi are still in jail?

The answer appears to be that Haaretz is desperately attempting to appear “balanced” by catering to readers on the right. But in effect what Haaretz is doing is preparing public opinion for the potentially dystopic reality in which a Palestinian 16-year-old teenage girl may go to jail for the crime of slapping her oppressor for a much longer period than Elor Azaria – an IDF soldier who was filmed summarily executing an unarmed and incapacitated Palestinian man and will likely be released very soon to receive a hero’s welcome.

Marquardt-Bigman’s piece is a response to the broad and growing support for the Tamimis in general and for Ahed in particular. It is an attempt to minimize resistance from Zionist liberals in the case of the continued incarceration of 16-year-old Ahed Tamimi. What’s more, it villainizes those who have adopted Ahed as a symbol of resistance as enemies of Jews, Zionists and the state of Israel.

Liberal Jews everywhere must make a choice – support Zionist fear-mongering, oppression and propaganda, which openly colludes with the rise of neo-fascistic forces worldwide, or embrace the call for equality and justice for Palestinians and all oppressed peoples.
http://mondoweiss.net/2018/01/counter-w ... olidarity/

Her cousin, same last name, was the first Palestinian of the year killed.

Yep. And you probably wouldn't have heard about the murder of this kid from the IDF since they happen so regularly and are hardly reported on. The IDF kill Palestinians children regularly and with impunity, but zionists get up in arms if any of these soldiers are slapped by a child whose land and home they illegally occupy. Other members of the Tamimi family have been killed too:

Oh that's so nice but when did New Yorkers care enough to stop and look?

You sound upset that hundreds came out in the freezing and cold snow for Ahed Tamimi. It was a good demonstration. I'm sure there'll be similar happening in Finland too. I know some took place in English cities, for the same reason, this weekend.

[B0ycey]

I have come in late for this one. This is a sad case and your opinion on it will depend on the side of the fence (or wall) you sit. Do you regard Palestine occupied or not? Because this is a case where a 16 year girl has had a brother shot in the face and the perpetrators (who are occupying their homeland) have come to her property. An argument ensues and hands are raised.

So the girl has assaulted a soilder. Is this acceptable? Well given the situation at the time, you can understand it. So, yes perhaps she should be arrested for that (even though I believe it is understandable) - however I am pretty sure this was just an excuse to silence her.

But it is the melee that follows that is definitely not acceptable. Clearly Israel have taken an interest in her family due to their social media work on their plight to free Palestine. They are supressing and intimidating her family members who are fighting for her justice and also trumping up her charges to imprison her for longer. Her offense, in the grand scheme of things is not that bad. And whether the accusation of rape was real or not, she deserves to be treated with dignaity whilst in custody.

But at the end of the day, Israel have done themselves no favors here. They have made this 16 year old a martyr and made this issue a global debate. The fact that it seems to be a minor offense given the situation has raised the profile to free Palestine once more. What we see here is a Mandela effect where Israel will just seem like the bullies in the school yard and Tamimi will be the hero.

Hopefully they will see sense and free this girl and perhaps work towards a two state solution so this kind of event cannot occur again. But I won't hold my breath.

[noir]

What justice? It's jihadi family. Israel is to blame here for not expelling this family.

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=172504&p=14877423#p14877105

[B0ycey]

@noir, do you know the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter? The actions of her relatives are not her actions BTW. And until there is a two state system in place, you can expect conflicting opinions on what the Tamimi family do.

So sure, blame Israel. But the only realistic approach to stop this if you are to take the expelling approach is to expel every single Palestinian from Palistine. Because if it isn't Amed, kicking and biting soldiers, it will be their neighbour - until a solution is found.

[noir]

A British colonel, former commander of the British Forces in Afghanistan

This is a clan of murderers, relatives convicted of murdering innocent Israelis, including bombing a Pizzeria killing many children. The fact that Palestinians have to fabricate and stage-manage 'abuse' speaks volumes. Only the feeble minded a anti-Semites are taken-in by their antics. Or people who was brainwashed by the BBC's Pallywood

BBC News website promotes the Tamimi clan again

https://bbcwatch.org/2017/12/20/bbc-new ... lan-again/


She is merely a prop in the propaganda war. A propaganda prop as it were. No significance other than to show the humanitarian and professional conduct of the IDF. Exactly the opposite of what the stage managers are trying to achieve.

[B0ycey]

A British colonel, former commander of the British Forces in Afghanistan

And my opinion on this is the same in both cases. The soldiers shouldn't be there to begin with and unfortunately need to show restraint when occupying someone elses land. I don't blame the soldiers here. I blame the politicians.

[noir]

An Indian soldier in the British commander post aove, says it's the same modus operandi in "occupied" Kashmir.

[noir]