Hellas me ponas wrote:Well, I just noticed that in this site most discussions are "café" time discussions and they aren't done by people who are experts on each respective topic.
I don't want to develop a detailed report of the Palestinian issue.
It's not a university lecture.
I'm just trying to open discussion about the ethics and moral justifications behind the issue.
I should be more specific then, right or wrong when it comes to morals, not when it comes to geopolitics.
Better? LOL…Clearly you are in the fantasy land. You want open discussion about “…the ethics and moral justifications behind the issue…” You can’t have it. Reason being that it would depends on ‘which church you worship at’, as it were.
I told you that you are asking the wrong question and you still do.
This is why I also told you that you need education and I suggested a university course. Do notice that I did not say that you should read a book, I said a reputable university course.
Again,- reason here is that any reputable university will at least give a semblance of balanced view on the subject matter that you are pondering, - and that subject matter is one of the most complicated issues that we are facing today, - so, no…you can’t have an open discussion on “…the ethics and moral justifications behind the issue…”.
If you attempt to persist here, what you WILL get is a verbal contest with one side claiming the divine right to the truth or the other side doing the same.
A university setting will mitigate that, but then again, it does depend on the school too. Today, thanks to the pandemic, you can take a web-course at the best schools that this planet has to offer that teach the subject. I can, if you like, suggest a few…
Hellas me ponas wrote:In case you want to discuss history of this certain region. I'm glad to have this discussion with you in an other thread, or personal msg.
No, - history cannot be discussed, - only stated as a fact.
Personally, I agree with the maxim that states that ‘History is written by the Victor’. It is often attributed to Napoleon Bonaparte, but I am sure he was not the first one to say it…methinks Churchill and also Goring uttered the same too.
As you see, one was the hero of our time and the other was the villain. Both said the same thing, - I hope that logic is your friend and you can figure out how baseless your initial desire to “…discuss history of this certain region… “really is.
Hellas me ponas wrote:I I've been reading a certain book about Ottoman history and an other about the Arab world.
I'll find them online if I can and send you links
You read the book? LOL…I read the book too! Thank you for the offer though, but I pass. Here is the question for the win, - whose book is ‘better’, - yours or mine?
Hellas me ponas wrote:I have a really good view of how Palestine was before the Jews invade. But I have to admit I havent studied at all the history after the invasion.
Jews… invade? WOW? Are you referring to the ‘invasion’ of Israelite tribes led by Joshua Bin-Nun? Are you?
If so, - that happened in the Bible, back about 4000 years ago give or take. And if you were to study the subject at reputable university, you’d know that the Bible is not a history book.
After the ‘invasion’ by Joshua Bin Nun, the Jews did not invade again, - ever. There was nothing to invade. They stayed in the land, that they called Judea, for the past 4000, or some historians and anthropologists will say 5000, years.
So, - what ‘invasion’ are you talking about?
Judea was controlled by many forces in the past 3000 years, - pick your favorite! The Israelites, the Assyrians, the Persians, the Greeks, the Babylonians, the Egyptians, the Romans, the Turks, The Arabs, the British - some are still around…and before them by the Amorites, the Philistines the Moabites, etc., - who are dead or extinct and have been for over 3000 years.
There is only one common denominator in the above paragraph, - it is the Jews. Yes, the Jews have stayed throughout the times since Biblical Joshua Bin Nun led the Israelite tribes in the military assault against the people living in what Bible called Canaan. The Jews won. The Jews never left the Land whose history you claim to have “a really good view of how Palestine was before the Jews invade…” LOL! All other cultures either died out, left, or, in the case of Arabs, came much later.
So, - which one is your favorite ‘invader’? If you can answer this question, then you will know who invaded who! Good luck with that…
Hellas me ponas wrote:It's night now and I can't find the books.
They are both from my mother's university she studied Turkish history, arts, economy, language, politics and society at Kapodistrian University of Athens. These books are really good, I suggest you read them too. I'll give you citations tommorow, bdcaus ei can't find them now.
I am sure the books you mother have “…are really good…” Well, - good night to you too, - I suggest that you re-read my post!
Still, - there is a light at the end of this tunnel. Here it is, - you can’t discuss history! You can only state your views and attempt to support it by facts as you see it. You will have to rely on the vote here and then accept the majority opinion. Like it or not, this is all you can do.
You can’t discuss the future, because it is yet to happen.
All you can do is to discuss the present and perhaps attempt to affect it as you see fit, or discuss a very close past, say…within a 100 year from the present.
If you attempt to venture outside of that time envelope you will find yourself in the turbulent waters of arguments and polemic. Take your chances, - you may drown as many did.