[Tainari88]

Indeed. And they are intolerant precisely because they still take their own religion seriously.

They do. In the end it is all about praxis. For Religious people who are true believers and for the ones living their political philosophies. How do they practice what they preach?

Humans need to realize you can not control the world and all the diversity in it. Not the human kind or the animal kind or the plant kind. Diversity is innate to this world. Wanting all of it to follow just one way is going to be against the very essence of life. If you can't understand why things vary and people vary and cultures vary and ideas vary and variation of everything? Then you will be fighting the wrong fight.

What do living things respond to well? That is the key to success.

[Potemkin]

They do. In the end it is all about praxis. For Religious people who are true believers and for the ones living their political philosophies. How do they practice what they preach?

Humans need to realize you can not control the world and all the diversity in it. Not the human kind or the animal kind or the plant kind. Diversity is innate to this world. Wanting all of it to follow just one way is going to be against the very essence of life. If you can't understand why things vary and people vary and cultures vary and ideas vary and variation of everything? Then you will be fighting the wrong fight.

What do living things respond to well? That is the key to success.

Exactly querida. Believing that you possess the one and only truth is a recipe for human and cultural catastrophe. And this is not just religion - political, economic and cultural absolutism can have an equally destructive effect. One size does not fit all.

[Fasces]

It all depends on the ability of the Palestinian state(s) (Gaza may as well become its own state, I regard this a domestic Palestinian issue) to keep their extremists in check, just like Jordan and Egypt do.

How can they when Israel blockades them, an act of war in any other situation?

[Rich]

The international Cultural Marxist lie machine, constantly tells us that Gaza is starving. This is a another of their lies. Far from starving, Gaza has one of the highest population growth rates in the world. Of course the standard Liberal response to this is that the Palestinians aren't rich enough and the rest of the world needs to be taxed more to fund the Muslims unproductive life style. But Saudi Arabia is one of the richest countries in the world and still has a fertility rate of two and half.

We live in a world of limited land, of limited natural resources and in an environment that has a limited ability to absorb the by products of human activity, with out degradation and harmful side effects. Look at the Middle East, rich Muslims are the most corrupt, self centered narcissistic, profligate people on the planet.

Islam is engaged in a war of annihilation against the rest of us. It doesn't matter how "nice" some individual Muslims are. It doesn't matter if some individual Muslims seem to be abiding by liberal pluralistic norms. Objectively they are engaged in a war of genocide against the rest of us. Narendra Modi is one of the few world leaders who seems to have the moral strength and wisdom to understand this.

[wat0n]

How can they when Israel blockades them, an act of war in any other situation?

Chicken or egg? The blockade started AFTER the islamists took over.

Clearly, my post refers to the situation after a final agreement was negotiated, signed and ratified.

Because, let's be honest, Israel and the Palestinian Authority can sign whatever they want yet Hamas and the other islamist groups won't recognize or abide by it.

[Fasces]

Clearly, my post refers to the situation after a final agreement was negotiated, signed and ratified.

And all I meant was that as long as we're fantasizing about hypotheticals, why half-ass it?

The perfect victory for many Zionists leaves many Arabs stateless, and vice versa - is that your perfect victory, too?

[Rancid]

There aren't two sides here. The Palestinians are not a single side, that alone is one of the key problems with any negotiation.

Agree. Anyone the distills any situation to a single size/factor, is probably full of it.

[wat0n]

And all I meant was that as long as we're fantasizing about hypotheticals, why half-ass it?

The perfect victory for many Zionists leaves many Arabs stateless, and vice versa - is that your perfect victory, too?

No, I think they should form 2 states as the starting point for any type of alternative. Even if they want a binational state, they can have referenda in each country to decide. Shouldn't that decision be left to each people?

[noemon]

I am not talking about fake green energy. I am talking about something that is clean and cheap and safe. I am just thinking that continuing to fight over a resource that is not renewable and once gone for good won't be doing the job. The pollution is out of control. The Saudis have a lot of money flowing in from the Western powers needing to buy oil from them. Why can't they give up on the oil and start thinking about an alternative? The biggest lithium reserve is in Sonora, Mexico. Elon Musk has been talking to AMLO the Mexican president.

The only renewable type of energy that I know of is hydro and has been in use since the antiquity.

Wind and solar require rare-earth mining of metals to fuel their existence. And these materials are not renewable, they are minerals.

It is totally fake as these metals are even harder to extract and a lot more energy-intensive to process than oil or gas. The batteries are also extremely high pollutants themselves and difficult if not impossible for most to recycle.

Anyway, back on the main topic. This cutting off food, water, electricity and fuel to the Gaza Strip is madness. Innocent people live there. Why does Israeli troops need to make sure they die off or submit? it seems extreme to me.

A lot of madness going on in that area.

Have you seen the images? Decapitations, little girls paraded in blood and spit, grandmas like the one I was pictured with in the summer, abducted.

We can both sit from afar and play moral judges but the reality is that both populations are simmering on a high-heat pan and permanently on "bomb ready to explode" mode.

This is purely because the global Muslim community cannot accept giving up Jerusalem. And Jerusalem is not even the holiest Muslim city, that is Meccah, in fact, Jerusalem is far more important and central for Jews and Christians that it has ever been for Muslims. Even during the Ottoman era, Christians(mainly) and Jews run Jerusalem, Muslim elites were happy to sit back and collect taxes from the Greek, Jewish and Armenian rayas who run the entire show.

At the same time, their Holy Book has a stated mission of conquering(not liberating) Constantinople(the Red Apple), a city that never had anything to do with the Muslims either, until a Hungarian(Orban) built a massive cannon to bring down the strongest walls ever built, for Mehmed.

In Israel, all this is happening because global Muslim feelings are refusing to recognize Jerusalem as non-Muslim.

This is a subject that is(or has become) central to Muslim identity and which requires negotiations with all the Muslim countries to achieve peace. This again is unprecedented in world history. The lack of a Caliphate, .ie a central Muslim authority, means that Israel has to make peace, with Morocco as well as Pakistan, with Turkey, as well as Saudi and Iran. This is a Sisyphean challenge.

Eventually, all these countries need to be called out for their open and shameless support for a cycle of death.

[Rich]

Agree. Anyone the distills any situation to a single size/factor, is probably full of it.

We can have simplicity with complexity. Take Vietnam, for me there was a simple question, under which regime would Buddhists have greater freedom in the present and the likely future. Therefore to paraphrase Churchill, victory should have been our policy, victory over the Communists should have been our overriding goal. However that doesn't mean I'm blind to the complexities of the situation. That the South Vietnamese regime was dominated by corrupt Papists. That America the number one backer of the South was a bigoted racist, White Christian supremacist country in the nineteen sixties. (This was actually a progressive advance from being a White Protestant supremacist country in the first half of the twentieth century). That America was immature as a country and hadn't experienced the huge levels of losses of conscript soldiers that European countries had. And that America's military was being led by deranged Liberals who saw the front line infantry as a jobs opportunity programme for young men of sub normal intelligence.

So supporting Israel in this conflict does not mean we just have to swallow Jewish Supremacist propaganda hook line and sinker.

An honest conversation this is certainly not. There were things I agree with here and things I disagree with, I thought though this video probably provides a good introduction to the hard line Zionist perspective.

[noemon]

The hard-line Zionist goal should be obvious to anyone with a single iota of knowledge of global history. This goal in Greece was shared by everybody including the communists. Historically this has been true, in every single country. During a war of independence againt the Ottoman and neo-Ottoman countries, all political factions have been united in the same national goal.

To the victor go the spoils. This is not just a "western" thing but Asian and Meso-American and African too. This is a given in Armenia, Azerbaijan, Libya, Syria, Ukraine, Yugoslavia, Kashmir.

Israel has conquered and established a country with the same way as all the other countries, yet it is the only country whose existence is still an open question by several other Muslim countries and where a demographic question remains in limbo for 70-odd years due to the refusal to have a final peace agreement which circles back to the sticky subject of Jerusalem. Demographic questions like this one are not a first in diplomatic history, they are still happening across the planet right now.

[QatzelOk]

Good luck with fanatical Muslims taking their religion lightly Potemkin. None of them are tolerant of blasphemy and lack of adherence to Sharia law.

What a disaster it would be if racist fanatics took over our media and banks.

Even if they became secular and tolerantTM, they would probably use their long-dead religious practices as a theme for their organized crime gangs.

[skinster]

Again, Palestine is right. Nobody has a right to genocide, land-theft and ethnic-cleansing with no end in sight. Nobody has a right to imprison and blockade people. Nobody has a right to force the natives of a land to live under a racist military rule. Palestinians are the victims here. Jews killed in Europe are not the fault of the Palestinians, but the fault of the Western states which allowed it to happen

Do you think the Palestinians should not have their own state? What is wrong with a two-state solution?

A two-state solution is impossible because Israel refuses to allow Palestinians their own state. The Palestinians were offered 45% of the land, despite being the majority, when the Brits gave away this country they didn't own to European Jews.

A couple of decades ago the Palestinians were willing to settle for 22% of the land they were offered at Balfour, but even that was not allowed by Israelis, because Israelis never wanted peace, just pieces of Palestine until they have the entire country.

I support a one-state solution which seems like the only one possible, short of either side wiping the other out entirely. One state for all living in the land, for equal rights for all rather than what we have today where Jews are privileged and the rest of the population are either second-class if they're lucky or imprisoned in a concentration camp. And if anyone doesn't like this one state, they can leave. I imagine a lot of Israelis would leave if this was offered, since they'd no longer have the privileges they've enjoyed for so long in this ethnosupremacist state..but who knows, maybe they could be fine living as equals..

The Palestinians have passed by several opportunities to have a state and make peace.

Nonsense. See above.

Arabs in Palestine refuse to let go of a tiny strip of land for 70 years.

It's their land. If you lived there, I'm sure you wouldn't roll over and die or simply leave. Not that Israel even allows them to leave, it imprisons them or occupies them.

The Arab world cannot give up a few square miles to make peace?

What about the idea that people who moved over to settle in another's land, go home? Most Israelis have two passports, for obvious reasons. Palestinians on the other hand aren't allowed to travel, unless they're amongst a lucky few.

Chicken or egg? The blockade started AFTER the islamists took over.

You mean Hamas won a democratic election and "the only-democracy-in-the-Middle-East" decided to punish the people of Gaza for "voting the wrong way" and then imposed a blockade and created a massive concentration camp.

[noemon]

Again, Palestine is right. Nobody has a right to genocide, land-theft and ethnic-cleansing with no end in sight. Nobody has a right to imprison and blockade people. Nobody has a right to force the natives of a land to live under a racist military rule. Palestinians are the victims here. Jews killed in Europe are not the fault of the Palestinians, but the fault of the Western states which allowed it to happen

Russia and Ukraine have that right it seems. As does Azerbaijan and Armenia as of right now.

[skinster]

Russia and Ukraine have that right it seems.

How is that even comparable? Russia isn't placing foreigners in the Donbass. The people fighting for self-determination there are the natives and that is the same in Palestine.

[noemon]

How is that even comparable? Russia isn't placing foreigners in the Donbass. The people fighting for self-determination there are the natives and that is the same in Palestine.

Same can be said about Israelis. They 're not foreigners in Israel.

It's their land. If you lived there, I'm sure you wouldn't roll over and die or simply leave. Not that Israel even allows them to leave, it imprisons them or occupies them.

As recent as my mother's grandparents who did "roll over" and let go of their lands and all properties in Cappadokia and Izmir, they were allowed one carry-bag if lucky and that's because they bribed someone to protect them and ensure their safety. They were given the option to convert or leave, they chose to leave. Parents of several friends of mine rolled over again in Cyprus as early as 1974 when they decided not to pursue total war with Turkey and effectively give up their land and properties to Turkish settlers.

Palestinians are not given Jordanian, Egyptian or Turkish citizenship despite all them 3 being legal & official predecessors of state authority in the area. Palestinian legal documents such as land titles are all either Turkish(mainly), Egyptian or Jordanian.

[wat0n]

You mean Hamas won a democratic election and "the only-democracy-in-the-Middle-East" decided to punish the people of Gaza for "voting the wrong way" and then imposed a blockade and created a massive concentration camp.

Actually after Hamas launched a coup in Gaza and threw Fatah members from rooftops.

[skinster]

Same can be said about Israelis. They 're not foreigners in Israel.

Actually, most of them are and most have two passports.

Here Empire Files spoke to Israelis in Jerusalem. You will note most have American or European accents.

Over the weekend Ben-Gurion airport was jam-packed with Israelis fighting with each other in an attempt to leave, to go back to where they came from.

Palestinians on the other hand, the vast majority don't have passports and nor does Israel allow them to leave.

As recent as my mother's grandparents who did "roll over" and let go of their lands and all properties in Cappadokia and Izmir, they were allowed one carry-bag if lucky and that's because they bribed someone to protect them and ensure their safety. They were given the option to convert or leave, they chose to leave.

That was bad too.

Palestinians are not given Jordanian, Egyptian or Turkish citizenship despite all them 3 being legal & official predecessors of state authority in the area. Palestinian legal documents such as land titles are all either Turkish, Egyptian or Jordanian.

All three states have millions of Palestinian refugees. Jordan has two million alone.

Actually after Hamas launched a coup in Gaza and threw Fatah members from rooftops.

Hamas won the election, Fateh refused to give up power and that's why they got the response from Hamas. But my point stands, the democracy in the middle east actually is not a democracy and hates democracy. It's a racist ethnosupremacist state that people here seem to want to apologise for.

[wat0n]

Hamas won the election, Fateh refused to give up power and that's why they got the response from Hamas. But my point stands, the democracy in the middle east actually is not a democracy and hates democracy. It's a racist ethnosupremacist state that people here seem to want to apologise for.

Yes, we know your vision of "democracy" consists in throwing the opposition from rooftops, extrajudicial executions, torture and now also massacres of complete families, rape and kidnapping of women and children.

Do you really think anyone cares about it?

[skinster]

The reaching with the Zionists is a sight to behold.