[paeng]

So we agree, the US should let go of Israel.

That said, people can change their positions on things, so digging back to 1986 is a bit much no?

Do you think the Joe Biden of 1986 would be calling for Israeli elections as the Joe Biden today?

The U.S. is treating Israel the same way today, and many other countries, and it's been doing that for decades.

[late]

This is a non-sequitur and does not provide any reason for disregarding the testimony of a hostage.

Along with the fact Hamas itself admits it has a battalion in Nuseirat.

I wonder if you will also deny she was raped, even though she says otherwise. It would not surprise me, at all. But then don't be like "believe all women" or some other of that nonsense.

That does not justify mass murder; the slaughter of tens of thousands of children.

[wat0n]

That does not justify mass murder; the slaughter of tens of thousands of children.

Nobody said it justifies Hamas' shielding.

[Pants-of-dog]

There is no evidence that Hamas has a battalion in Nuseirat.

There is no evidence that Hamas was present at the bombings.

There is evidence that the IDF told people that refugee camps were safe in central Gaza about a week before bombing the refugee camps in central Gaza.

[late]

Nobody said it justifies Hamas' shielding.

Moving the goalposts won't change the facts on the ground, Israel does civilian punishment better than Hitler...

It also doesn't make your sad defense of mass murder look better.

[wat0n]

Nonsense. Israel has every right to get the hostages back, and to make sure Hamas stops ruling Gaza.

Hamas does not have a right to use civilians and their infrastructure as shields.

There is no evidence that Hamas has a battalion in Nuseirat.

That's not what Amit Soussana said.

She said she was held in Nuseirat, as confirmed by her captors.

There is no evidence that Hamas was present at the bombings.

Actually there is, since Hamas operates in Nuseirat.

I will note that the places where the hostages were kept in were determined in advance, as she said the house she was kept in was ready to receive her to the point it had a chain to make sure she would not escape.

This suggests a continuous presence in the areas where hostages were kept.

There is evidence that the IDF told people that refugee camps were safe in central Gaza about a week before bombing the refugee camps in central Gaza.

Which camps?

And a week is a long time. Very long time.

[Pants-of-dog]

There is no evidence of a battalion in Nuseirat or that Hamas was present in Nuseirat when the bombing occurred.

If the argument tis that the IDF knew hostages were being kept there (and this is how they figured out Hamas was there) then the IDF bombed hostages as well. Again.

Nor does this refute the fact that the IDF told the residents of Gaza that these camps were safe before bombing them.

[wat0n]

I see @Pants-of-dog is still implying a hostage like Amit Soussana is a liar. It's interesting he would go as far as to defame a hostage who is saying she was raped and tortured to defend islamists, even when even said islamists openly admit to have a battalion in Nuseirat and publicly eulogize their commanders. And of course he would rather have people like her remain victimized, being tortured and raped every now and then, instead of rescuing her and the perpetrators be held accountable.

It reminds me of those right-wing Chileans who also claimed the people tortured by Pinochet's dictatorship were lying, and went ballistic when he was being prosecuted.

[Pants-of-dog]

There is no evidence that Hamas has a battalion in Nuseirat. The evidence for this claim was presented and it was a vague allusion made from a Google translation.

The hostage’s own words suggest there is no Hamas building in Nuseirat at all, since she was taken to private homes.

Nor does this contradict the claim that the IDF declared this camp a safe zone shortly before bombing it.

[wat0n]

There is no evidence that Hamas has a battalion in Nuseirat. The evidence for this claim was presented and it was a vague allusion made from a Google translation.

It is not a "vague allusion" to make an eulogy for a commander of Nuseirat's battalion.

The hostage’s own words suggest there is no Hamas building in Nuseirat at all, since she was taken to private homes.

This is also disingenuous, those private homes were used by Hamas since she was kept there. Hamas turned those private homes into their buildings.

Nor does this contradict the claim that the IDF declared this camp a safe zone shortly before bombing it.

I am still waiting for a source on this.

[QatzelOk]

...Israel has every right to get the hostages back, and to make sure Hamas stops ruling Gaza....

According to you, Israel has the right to brutally ethnic-cleanse the original residents of Palestine and steal their land.

So your understanding of "human rights" is close to Jeffrey Dahmer's.

[late]

Nonsense.

The continuation of the massacre proves the war crime, and it seems more than likely more crimes will be added to that indictment.

Try calling nonsense in court, counselor...

[wat0n]

According to you, Israel has the right to brutally ethnic-cleanse the original residents of Palestine and steal their land.

So your understanding of "human rights" is close to Jeffrey Dahmer's.

It's odd coming from someone who is on record justifying massacring children.

Israel has every right to get the hostages back, unconditionally.

It also has every right to fight Hamas, since Hamas decided to start a war.

[QatzelOk]

It's odd coming from someone who is on record justifying massacring children...

Jeffrey Dahmer used to "hint" that the victims whose heads he had drilled holes in... were perpetrators of great crimes... out there... somewhere....

And the racist cops believed him and left his apartment with all the smell of dead bodies.

But he was killed in jail by other inmates. So while Jeffrey Dahmer is gone.... we still have his talking points before us coming from the likes of you...

[wat0n]

Talking points like stupid references to Jeffrey Dahmer?

Yes, you did justify massacring children. Specifically by scalping.

[Pants-of-dog]

If a private home is turned into an operation centre, that suggests that there was no operations centre before that.

This contradicts the previous justification used to dismiss the massacre of children.

[wat0n]

@Pants-of-dog or maybe the private home was turned into a place to hold hostages.

Will you finally start believing Amit Soussana?

[Pants-of-dog]

Other possibilities exist.

But the fact that many possibilities exist does not support the claim that Hamas was present in Nuseirat at the time the IDF massacred children.

[wat0n]

What other possibilities exist, @Pants-of-dog?

How can a hostage be held in Nuseirat without Hamas or some of the other armed groups that joined its attack on October 7 being present there?

[Pants-of-dog]

It is plausible to imagine that the hostages are being moved around to those areas that the IDF are declaring safe (for the safety of the hostages and their guards) and therefore the hostage was moved there for a short period of time.

There are many plausible scenarios that would explain why the hostage was kept there without assuming a permanent Hamas presence that somehow leaves no trace.