[wat0n]

Even this scenario requires a permanent presence by Hamas. It requires, after all, determining, equipping and securing in advance where will hostages be moved to, and also securing the routes that will be used to move them. This all requires presence.

And Hamas' presence certainly left trace. Particularly, tunnels.

[Pants-of-dog]

There are plausible scenarios where none of that preparation is required.

And if that much preparation was desired, it would be significantly easier to move hostages to a permanent base instead of a private home, since that would significantly reduce the number of variables.

[wat0n]

Or maybe a private home that has been taken over by Hamas, without being marked, is a much better alternative to secure a hostage (and for quartering).

[Pants-of-dog]

Many scenarios exist,

The fact that many possible scenarios exist does not support any specific claim.

What we do know for a fact is that the IDF declared refugee camps in central Gaza to be safe and then bombed them, killing many civilians.

If the IDF knew Hamas was in the region, then they lied when they said the camps were safe zones, and the massacre of children cannot be justified.

If the IDF did not know Hamas was in the region, then the massacre of children cannot be justified.

[wat0n]

Or maybe the camps were safe zones while the IDF was operating in the north, then Israel told civilians to evacuate further south as it moved to take central Gaza. Maybe because a ground invasion is usually done in phases and therefore it is entirely possible to do this.

What is true, is that Hamas operates - among other places - in Nuseirat and this is confirmed by a former hostage who was held there for some time.

And you still can't admit this, I wonder if you'll claim she's lying.

[skinster]

An investigation of what happened on Oct 7 destroys much of the official narrative of it fed to you by Zionists, who basically lie as they breathe:

Are the Americans supporting these actions?

No, and with every new poll, increasingly no.

From the most recent poll:

We were standing sixty yards from the BBC building. The obvious thing to do was to storm the BBC and occupy it, that would be a protest that couldn't be ignored. Such provocative direct action though must be tied to near term achievable demands, not long term fantasies. I don't go on protests to give my life meaning, or find a way to pass the time, I'm only interested in effecting change, hence I haven't felt tempted to go on any more.

Perhaps you haven't attended many protests in London, Rich, but buildings like the BBC HQ have a lot of security as well as the police protecting it. Plus, our side are peaceful protesters because some of us understand that we cannot match the power of the state, plus optics matter too and we will get more people onside.

If you're so passionate about storming a building, be sure to report back on how it went. If you're able to..

The Palestinian Solidarity Movement is quite correct to say that the Israelis don't really care about the death and sufferings of Gazans, but neither does the Left or the Palestinian Solidarity Movement.

Nonsense.

If Hamas and their supporters were to demand the complete independence of Gaza in return for a long term peace, they would have a very powerful negotiating position.

Hamas and other resistance organisations have been demanding the end of the occupation for decades and the blockade ever since it began. Hamas' 2017 Charter agreed to the two state solution where Palestinians would get just 22% of their land. The only party that refuses is the Israelis because 78% of the land isn't enough and they want all of occupied Palestine.

It would then up to the Israelis to say if they didn't want an independent Gaza, that Gaza had to go back to Egypt.

Gaza is Palestine, not Egypt. If you think Palestinians are going to give up on their land and state after almost six months of this war, and the last 75+ years, you're not paying attention.

I'm not offended by "From the River to the Sea", I just see it as empty virtue signalling. From the River to the Sea is not going to happen, but neither are the Israelis going to give back the West Bank. We're now talking about a million settlers.

What do you understand "From the River to the Sea" to mean? It is basically a call for freedom, in that, Palestinians get equal rights with all the people of the land who live between the River Jordan and Med Sea. Currently, there is a system of apartheid there and a concentration camp, now more commonly known as a death camp.

Also, over a million settlers have left occupied Palestine since Oct 7 and that looks like it will only increase, since the settlers have somewhere else to go back to and if there's an option of living in peace or living in war, we know what most people would opt for. Palestinians on the other hand are rooted in the land and will fight for it until death or victory, as the last 75+ years demonstrate. They are not leaving.

When you try and get Liberals to address this matter seriously they Liberal Zionist gas lighters start talking about land swaps. Please spare me.

Liberal Zionism never existed. Zionism in Palestine was always a colonial project based on racism, ethnic cleansing and genocide.

Hamas has at least killed Palestinian civilians trying to pick up aid.

It is not clear to me if they would also kill those trying to evacuate Rafah if it comes to be.

The only "evidence" you had to support these lies was a video of some shooting occurring and...that was it. No evidence of who was doing the shooting. There weren't even any people said to be shot. There hasn't been a single Palestinian claiming Hamas are shooting at them, but plenty of testimonies of the Israelis sniping dead Palestinians or killing their relatives or friends. Let me know if you would like me to show you a list of these sniper executions. Here's one:


If you're going to lie, try to make it believable. Why would Hamas shoot their own? For anyone paying attention to the resistance factions and their resistance against the Israeli army, you will see that the Palestinian fighters shoot and target the Israeli army on the ground in Gaza who are holed up in buildings they occupy or in tanks, as well as downing their drones on some occasions.

Meanwhile, the Israeli cowards have been shooting at anything that moves, including women and children, when they're not being complete cowards by bombing from remote locations, from a distance or from the skies. Israelis have even shot and killed their own hostages in Gaza, despite the hostages shouting at them in Hebrew with raised white flags, pleading at the Israeli army not to kill them. They got killed anyway. And they've killed tens of their own hostages in Gaza since the Israeli hostages happen to be in that area the Israeli army has been carpet-bombing for over 170 days.


The Israeli government does not care about the Israeli hostages. The Israeli hostages know this. Freed Israeli hostages have accused their government of this too.

The civilians shot in Rafah prove otherwise. Israel does not have ground troops there.

More lies. The resistance is not shooting its own people, it's shooting at the Israeli terrorists, the ones brave enough to enter Gaza, where they keep getting run out of.

Here is a video showing how the Palestinian resistance fights compared to how the Israeli diaper army fights. Feel free to compare and contrast:

This is how the Israelis make war:

1) Hamas supporters why are hostages not released yet or atleast their bodies not given to Israel if they are dead? May be change your government to somebody who is for peace? Do you like whats happening? It is well deserved after the attack.

The remaining 130 or so Israeli hostages have not been released yet because, despite repeated negotiations, Netanyahu won't make a deal that is suitable to the Palestinian resistance. The Palestinians are demanding all Palestinian hostages in exchange for the Israeli hostages, an end to Israeli aggression in Gaza and a permanent ceasefire. At best, Netanyahu has offered a two week ceasefire, but what use is that for Palestinians to give up their bargaining chips so that the Israeli army can take a short break before re-arming to continue their genocide?

Also, Netanyahu knows if a deal is made, he will very quickly be in a dock, be it an Israeli one for 4 corruption charges against him or an international one, for genocide. Plenty of people inside the Israeli government and amongst its people understand Netanyahu is continuing genocide to save his own back.

Current Israel government has not been interested in peace since early 90s/late 80s

Incorrect. The Israelis have never sought peace with the people whose land they stole. In the Likud Charter in 1977, the Israelis said there would be no Palestinian state. A number of Israeli politicians up to Netanyahu very recently reiterated this, after the West brought back the "two state solution" charade back on the table.

So far, the only genocide in the region occurred on Oct 7 when Hamas killed, raped, and kidnapped men, women and children, to start a war.

Why do you have to keep displaying how ignorant you are on this topic? The genocide against Palestinians became official in 1948. What happened on October 7 2023 was the most recent response to Israel's genocide of Palestinians.

There were previous uprisings by Palestinian natives too, in the First and Second Intifadas and the uprisings against European Zionists and British military pre the 1948 official occupation of Palestine.

Even the Thai negotiator for the hostages that were freed in Nov understood the context behind the Oct 7 action. Maybe you should do some reading.

Also, there is no evidence of any rape occurring on October 7, despite the many claiming this, that have got debunked each time.

Meanwhile in reality..


"Every accusation is a confession"

[Pants-of-dog]

The goalposts have changed from “Hamas has a battalion there and was definitely there at the moment the IDF massacred those kids” to “Hamas has operated there at other times during the conflict and may have been there when the IDF massacred those kids”.

Airstrikes on three refugee camps in the Strip also came after the IDF’s warning on Oct. 8 instructed people in the eastern and southern Maghazi area to move to camps in central Gaza.

The BBC verified that there were no camps in the location specified on the tweet’s map but identified three nearby ones: Al-Nuseirat, Al-Bureij, and Deir Al-Balah. All three camps were bombed on Oct. 17 and 18.

On Oct. 25, Al-Nuseirat camp suffered another strike that killed the son of Al Jazeera’s chief Gaza correspondent Wael al-Dahdouh, who moved with his family from the north following Israel’s warning.

The BBC said in the report it could not rule out the possibility that there were subsequent different instructions, “but the BBC has not found any evidence of this.”

So if the counter argument is that later instructions told residents to move elsewhere, an investigation found no such instructions.

[wat0n]

No @Pants-of-dog, the goalpost was that Hamas operates in Nuseirat and has a battalion there. This is true to the point that Hamas admits it publicly and that a hostage was taken to Nuseirat. The rest is a straw man you made up because you can't deal with the evidence.

@skinster the denial, when there's even footage, is tiring.

And now you have a hostage who came forward and said she was sexually assaulted. I wonder when will you both call her a liar too.

[skinster]

@skinster the denial, when there's even footage, is tiring.

And now you have a hostage who came forward and said she was sexually assaulted. I wonder when will you both call her a liar too.

There is no footage of it. Every rape accusation by the Israelis has been debunked. And this new one from today will be too, because I suspect if it were true, we would've heard about it.

The reason why I'm quick to dismiss these claims is because 1) Zionists lie as they breathe 2) we've seen reports of Israeli propagandists instructing people like you to keep going on about rape in an attempt to distract from the genocide 3) the New York Times reports have all been debunked including by family of one of these "rape" victims.

I know this is the only issue you have going for yourself to distract from genocide and while some may fall for it, I know what people like you are like and it won't work. And increasingly, the average person is seeing what liars you are. I hope they pay you well for your attempts to distract from a genocide that everyone with eyes can see.

[Pants-of-dog]

There is no evidence for a battalion in Nuseirat.

I see there is no more argument about the IDF bombing zones that the IDF told everyone were safe.

[skinster]

Hamas is intact, so has Israel lost?
Six months after Al-Aqsa Flood, Israel has made little progress in eradicating Hamas or its capabilities, and its Gaza war only fueled and expanded support for resistance. Tel Aviv has miscalculated badly; you can't fight ideology with guns.

Six months into Israel's blitzkrieg on Gaza, the occupation state's military intelligence has reluctantly acknowledged what many had suspected: achieving a decisive victory over Hamas is an unattainable goal. Despite Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's initial rhetoric of total annihilation, the reality on the ground speaks differently.

Tzachi Hanegbi, head of Israel's national security, had previously declared that nothing short of 'total victory' would suffice. Yet, as military Spokesperson Daniel Hagari conceded on 18 March, Hamas continues to persist, regrouping – he alleges – around Al-Shifa hospital in the northern Strip.

As US National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan pointed out last week: "Israel cleared Shifa once. Hamas came back into Shifa, which raises questions about how to ensure a sustainable campaign against Hamas so that it cannot regenerate, cannot retake territory."

Mission impossible
From a political standpoint, this suggests that the occupation army can neither eradicate the Palestinian resistance movement nor assert control over the besieged territory.

Reserve General Itzhak Brik, who has previously criticized the "total chaos" among the ranks of Israeli soldiers in Gaza, has long warned that "the complete destruction of Hamas is not feasible, and Benjamin Netanyahu's statements regarding this matter are only intended to deceive others."

Tel Aviv's failure to dismantle Hamas's extensive tunnel network further highlights the inadequacy of its military efforts. Israeli authorities have confirmed that around 80 percent of Hamas' tunnel system remains intact despite months of airstrikes and ground operations.

This network, according to Iranian defense ministry officials speaking on condition of anonymity, is estimated to stretch for between 350 to 450 miles – an astonishing feat, given that Gaza's longest point is 25 miles. Two officials also assessed that there are close to 5,700 separate shafts leading to these tunnels.

Israeli boasts of repeatedly bombing Hamas tunnels ring untrue in light of these discoveries. Even advanced munitions like GBU-28 'deep penetration' bombs have proven to be ineffective against the tunnels' depth and complexity.

The evidence of Israel's inability to break through Hamas defenses continues to mount. In a 12 March speech, Iranian leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei revealed that he had received a message from the Palestinian resistance saying that "90 percent of our capabilities are intact."

According to US Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Mark Warner, the Israeli army was at most able to destroy less than a third of the Hamas tunnel network, adding: "The idea that you're going to eliminate every Hamas fighter, I don't think is a realistic goal."

It's abundantly clear that Israel's stated objective of destroying Hamas has not been achieved, nor will it be in the future. Even the Wall Street Journal, in a 29 February article lauding the occupation army's successful strikes on Hamas forces, acknowledged that "Israel is still far from its declared war aim of eliminating Hamas as a significant military and political entity."

Israel's failures can be analyzed from two distinct perspectives. Firstly, Hamas's form of military resistance is asymmetrical, allowing it to inflict damage on a much larger adversary without bearing significant casualties.

Understanding the necessity to safeguard its dual political-military structure, Hamas organizes military operations into independent cells under the authority of the Al-Qassam Brigades.

Secondly, Hamas consists of not only a fighting force but an ideology deeply rooted in the Palestinian struggle for national liberation within the Islamic notion of jihad – or "meritorious effort." The potency of this anti-colonial movement, and particularly its broad, entrenched popularity among the people, renders eradicating it a near-impossible task.

In contrast to the Fatah-led, US–Israeli-backed Palestinian Authority's (PA) acceptance of self-government with numerous constraints – exemplified by the Oslo Accords – Hamas's rejection of such agreements reflects its steadfast opposition to Israel's colonial vision and offers an attractive alternative political stance.

Assessing war as a tool of politics
In short, threats to annihilate Hamas and destroy Gaza are futile. From the rational perspective of the Palestinian resistance group, it is understood that the consequences would be far more severe if they were to submit to Israel's demands.

This same logic of resistance, which is fundamental, is shared by the overwhelming majority of Hamas followers, including secular ones. Furthermore, the logic of anti-colonial resistance is passed down from one generation to the next, and the genocidal dynamics of Zionism only serve to perpetuate this same logic.

The acknowledged failure of Zionism's pursuit of 'total victory' over Hamas must be comprehended from a political perspective. As long as Israel's colonial occupation persists in its objectives of displacement and conquest in Palestine, the ideology of resistance, epitomized by Hamas today, will maintain its dominance among the colonized.

Polls conducted among Palestinians corroborate this analysis. A survey by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research in December 2023 indicates growing support for Hamas across all occupied Palestinian territories, alongside stunningly diminished support for the PA.

The data further reveals widespread endorsement of Hamas' actions, including the 7 October resistance operation Al-Aqsa Flood, and a significant demand for the resignation of Mahmoud Abbas, the PA's president.

The statement from the Former Deputy Chairman of the Israeli National Security Council, acknowledging that "there are no military solutions to the conflicts Israel is engaged in, particularly in the southern region," confirms the political blindness of the current Israeli status quo.

Understanding the Axis of Resistance
It is important to note that, at times, it is assumed that an ideology may be subordinate to a set of political interests, which could lead to that ideology modifying its political objectives at some point. However, this is not the case with Hamas, nor is it when analyzing the reasons for Hezbollah and Iran's opposition to Israel.

Neither Hamas nor the rest of the members of the Axis of Resistance can be threatened or bombed into submission, as these autonomous groups have their own political agenda that they consider non-negotiable even in the face of Israel's genocidal campaign. As Hezbollah Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah emphasized repeatedly in a 16 February televised speech:

"We are before two choices – resistance or surrender – and the price of surrender … means submission, humiliation, slavery, and disdain for our elders, our children, our honor, and our wealth … The price of surrender in Lebanon meant Israel's political and economic hegemony over our country."

To illustrate, consider Iran's steadfast commitment to Palestine despite the internal risks it poses to Iranian national security in confronting both the US and Israel. Yet, these risks and threats hold no sway over Tehran's regional political strategy, which is rooted firmly in its revolutionary vision.

This marks a fundamental difference with classic western military coalitions created ad hoc by like-minded states to combat a common threat without long-term commitments. The "collapse" of the lackluster US-led coalition aimed at countering Yemen's anti-Israel naval operations in the Red Sea is a case in point.

In contrast, the Axis of Resistance is more than just a coalition of groups; it is anchored by an anti-colonial ideology that shares non-negotiable objectives but allows for different strategies to achieve them.

In other words, all the groups that comprise the Axis of Resistance – whether Sunni, Shia, Arab, non-Arab, secular, or Islamist – are capable of reaching occasional agreements and disagreements using the same language of the anti-colonial Islamic tradition.

As the war on Gaza has raged for half of a year, the unprecedented toll on Palestinian lives and infrastructure has been devastating. Despite some tactical advances by the occupation forces, it's becoming increasingly clear that Israel is headed towards a strategic defeat.

Its failure to achieve its objectives contrasts sharply with the unwavering resolve of the Palestinian resistance, bolstered by a regional alliance united in its uncompromising stance against the occupation state.
https://thecradle.co/articles/hamas-is- ... srael-lost

[wat0n]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSdKlDWjQRg





There is no footage of it. Every rape accusation by the Israelis has been debunked. And this new one from today will be too, because I suspect if it were true, we would've heard about it.

The reason why I'm quick to dismiss these claims is because 1) Zionists lie as they breathe 2) we've seen reports of Israeli propagandists instructing people like you to keep going on about rape in an attempt to distract from the genocide 3) the New York Times reports have all been debunked including by family of one of these "rape" victims.

I know this is the only issue you have going for yourself to distract from genocide and while some may fall for it, I know what people like you are like and it won't work. And increasingly, the average person is seeing what liars you are. I hope they pay you well for your attempts to distract from a genocide that everyone with eyes can see.

Oh, so you want to see rape footage now? That's a very degenerate fetish.

I note you wanted to see a victim come forward, you got that.

There is no evidence for a battalion in Nuseirat.

I see there is no more argument about the IDF bombing zones that the IDF told everyone were safe.

The evidence was shared by Hamas itself, and confirmed by the hostage who was released. Will you call her a liar like @skinster did? Will you demand footage of her being raped or maybe of her being tortured as well?

I already made the argument regarding the safe zones, you have yet to address it by the way. I know it's correct because it's a simple matter of seeing the advance of the IDF within Gaza.

[skinster]

A tank ran over a patient attempting to escape al-Shifa hospital. All that was left of his body are his legs, one in a cast. This is Zionism:

Oh, so you want to see rape footage now? That's a very degenerate fetish.

The only obsession with rape is coming from you, claiming it is where it isn't, spreading the lies about rape because that's what you've been instructed to do by your masters and trying to distract from a genocide where rape against the natives has been committed for the last 75+ years, and very well documented too. Stories have been coming out of Gaza about the IDF gang-raping Palestinian women and children, when they're not doing the same to their own soldiers, as the Weinberg case recently showed..

Anyway, the stories you keep spreading keep getting debunked. A most recent report doing that:

Israeli propagandist behind Hamas ‘mass rape’ narrative exposed as grifter, fraud

And then there is this:


Here is the ZAKA guy that first made the made-up bullshit claims about rape and "40 beheaded babies"




And this new case of "rape" you're now shilling, from today or yesterday, will be debunked too. I imagine these stories are coming out like they're on steroids because of the report of the Palestinian woman who was gang-raped by Israeli soldiers in al-Shifa hospital, where the soldiers threatened her husband and kids to watch their mum/wife be gang-raped or they would be killed and because more and more Palestinian women have been admitting to such because it's got to the point of being beyond unbearable.

See, for someone like me who's been paying attention to the war on Palestinians, the rape of Palestinian women, children and men is not new. It has been happening every since European terrorists stole Palestine in the 1940s. I also know Palestinians generally don't like to talk about the rapes because they live in a conservative society where such things are stigmatised.

Israelis of the past admitted raping and killing Palestinians:

But this obsession with rape from Zionists like you is to distract from your own. Every accusation is a confession. Even Israeli media admitted to the lies you keep spreading:


Have you heard of the boy who cried wolf? You are the Zionist who cried rape. And nobody is falling for your shit. Which I must say, is great to see.

[wat0n]

Baseless denial is not "debunking" anything, let alone now that one of the demands - to hear from someone claiming to have been raped - was met.

@skinster, you are the only one who wants to see footage of rape.

Does it turn you on? It's the only explanation for this weird standard, one that is not demanded from Palestinians claiming to have been sexually abused.

[skinster]

Jordanians have been protesting for the fourth night in a row against the genocide in Gaza, demanding the removal of the Israeli embassy in Amman and no to normalisation with the Zionist entity.

[paeng]

Learn from Dark Brandon. The goal is to use tools like Israel to control the region.

[skinster]

[Godstud]

@skinster Hamas committed a terrorist attack(s) on Oct 7 and killed/raped/kidnapped over 1200 people. That's fact. It's not zionist propaganda. To say that is to abandon your senses.

Stop supporting a homicidal, and genocidal, terrorist organization(Hamas).

Hamas started a war. War is never good. People get hurt. Innocents get killed. Hamas doesn't give a shit about you, Palestinians, or anyone else, only their genocidal agenda.

[JohnRawls]

@skinster Hamas committed a terrorist attack(s) on Oct 7 and killed/raped/kidnapped over 1200 people. That's fact. It's not zionist propaganda. To say that is to abandon your senses.

Stop supporting a homicidal, and genocidal, terrorist organization(Hamas).

Hamas started a war. War is never good. People get hurt. Innocents get killed. Hamas doesn't give a shit about you, Palestinians, or anyone else, only their genocidal agenda.

Hamas are terrorist animals who started this and Israel are ethnic cleansing animals also, Gaza is 66% destroyed this is already reaching levels of Russian devasation in Ukraine. Mariupol is 70% destroyed, Bakhmut is 80% destroyed.

Hamas deserved a response and retaliation but not to this degree.

Both sides are just bad faith actors in the sense of peace.

[Rich]

Since the 1960s the West has become blinded by 3 hate filled ideologies, White Inferiorism, Gentile Inferiorism and Infidel Inferiorism. We see laughable attempts by Marxists, liberals and cuckservatives to harmonise these contradictory beliefs. As to Gentile Inferiorism the international liberal lie machine has invented a whole fantasy history, where Jews and Israelites have been the innocent victims of history for the last three and half thousand years.

I'm no fan of the Muslim Brotherhood, that in Palestine is known as Hamas. After initially sitting on the fence I sided with Assad against the forces of the Muslim Brotherhood and ideologically related groups and their western liberal backers in Syria. However the primary blame for this current situation must lie with Israel. The Israelis are not working to create a Two State solution, they are creating a patchwork of tiny bantustans on the West Bank. This process has gone on relentlessly since 1967, it has gone under right wing governments and under left. Settlement expansion continued throughout the peace process.

Its no good trying to blame this situation on Hamas. This process started before Hamas (although not the Muslim brotherhood) even existed. Hamas have never controlled the West Bank. The Liberals say let us just get rid of Netanyahu and all will be peacefullness and light. Netanyahu has been got rid of multiple times, it never fundamentally changed anything. There's zero reason to think that this time will any different.