Netanyahu’s long-term plan for Gaza? - Page 25 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15303328
Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes, at many times, Spanish imperialism was not settler colonialism. Though many times, such as in the Chile, it was.


Not just in Chile, if we go by your own construct.

But even if you stick to Chile, the indigenous peoples were subject to the encomienda system (inherited from medieval Castilla), the mita system (inherited from the Incas - another example of settler colonialism), sold as slaves (for those who did not submit to the Crown, were caught alive and if it was profitable) or just massacred. One way for the indigenous peoples to avoid slavery and/or death was to convert to Christianity and declare their allegiance to the Crown, since the Spanish monarchy would then protect its subjects and they would be subject to the encomienda or the mita.

The Umayyads just used punitive taxation, paying taxes with money or in specie instead of labor being often enough to get their subjects to convert or pay allegiance to the Caliphate and accept their second class status in exchange for protection and relative religious freedom (compared to Europe at least). When it wasn't, those who refused to submit could be converted by force, often under threat of death or becoming slaves themselves.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Since I am literally copying and pasting my words. it i s exactly what I said.


...And what you describe is indeed shielding.

Pants-of-dog wrote:How does that turn into a motive?


Why would the Palestinian Authority want to see Israel painted in a good light?

Just because it wants to see Hamas destroyed it does not mean it wants Israel to have good PR.

Pants-of-dog wrote:According to you, withholding funds is not a coercive gesture.


It is, but that does not mean it is always successful when it comes to actually affecting behavior.

Pants-of-dog wrote:But in reality, you are contradicting your previous claim that Hamas is paying them.

Please decide which you believe.


Both are true. The Palestinian Authority transfers the funds for the payroll of government employees to Hamas.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Probably because they cannot trust that their secret would be kept, which makes sense, since they would have to threaten too many people while being watched by too many eyes.

Also, you may want to fix your post.


Who cares? Israel could, again, force them to say whatever it wants under the threat of torture or execution.
#15303330
wat0n wrote:Not just in Chile, if we go by your own construct.

But even if you stick to Chile, the indigenous peoples were subject to the encomienda system (inherited from medieval Castilla), the mita system (inherited from the Incas - another example of settler colonialism), sold as slaves (for those who did not submit to the Crown, were caught alive and if it was profitable) or just massacred. One way for the indigenous peoples to avoid slavery and/or death was to convert to Christianity and declare their allegiance to the Crown, since the Spanish monarchy would then protect its subjects and they would be subject to the encomienda or the mita.

The Umayyads just used punitive taxation, paying taxes with money or in specie instead of labor being often enough to get their subjects to convert or pay allegiance to the Caliphate and accept their second class status in exchange for protection and relative religious freedom (compared to Europe at least). When it wasn't, those who refused to submit could be converted by force, often under threat of death or becoming slaves themselves.


At this point, it seems clear that settler colonialism was not the structure for Islamic incursion into Palestin

...And what you describe is indeed shielding.


No. Goading an attack is the very opposite of shielding, when it comes to motivation for revealing weapons.

Why would the Palestinian Authority want to see Israel painted in a good light?

Just because it wants to see Hamas destroyed it does not mean it wants Israel to have good PR.


If that were the case, then the PA would be trying to force the hospital staff to testify of mistreatment by the IDF.

It is, but that does not mean it is always successful when it comes to actually affecting behavior.

Both are true. The Palestinian Authority transfers the funds for the payroll of government employees to Hamas.


Then please provide evidence that they are still paying the hospital staff.

Who cares? Israel could, again, force them to say whatever it wants under the threat of torture or execution.


No, not all the time. The situation is too fluid for the IDF to control all the variables needed to ensure no one spoke of the threats.

This is literally a conspiracy theory.
#15303332
Pants-of-dog wrote:At this point, it seems clear that settler colonialism was not the structure for Islamic incursion into Palestin


What's clear is that you dislike the comparison but cannot quite defend your claims.

Pants-of-dog wrote:No. Goading an attack is the very opposite of shielding, when it comes to motivation for revealing weapons.


They goad the attack because they know Israel will hesitate to hit them. They would not do it in an open field, as was shown on October 7th, because the lack of collateral damage would make Israel attack them right away.

Pants-of-dog wrote:If that were the case, then the PA would be trying to force the hospital staff to testify of mistreatment by the IDF.


They have already complained about the Israeli raid to take over hospitals. What else do you want?

Pants-of-dog wrote:Then please provide evidence that they are still paying the hospital staff.


I would say it's the other way around - has the PA stopped paying the salaries of government workers in Gaza?

Pants-of-dog wrote:No, not all the time. The situation is too fluid for the IDF to control all the variables needed to ensure no one spoke of the threats.

This is literally a conspiracy theory.


Yet I don't think we've heard of anyone being executed for speaking against Israel, have we?
#15303338
wat0n wrote:They goad the attack because they know Israel will hesitate to hit them. They would not do it in an open field, as was shown on October 7th, because the lack of collateral damage would make Israel attack them right away.


There is no gain in having the IDF attack an open field. There is a media gain if the IDF are filmed attacking a hospital.

They have already complained about the Israeli raid to take over hospitals. What else do you want?

I would say it's the other way around - has the PA stopped paying the salaries of government workers in Gaza?

Yet I don't think we've heard of anyone being executed for speaking against Israel, have we?


At this point, it seems unrealistic to assume that the hospital staff are secretly being controlled by anyone and therefore their testimony, or lack thereof, cannot be discounted.

And the hospital staff have provided no testimony that Hamas was using hospitals as military centres.
#15303346
Pants-of-dog wrote:There is no gain in having the IDF attack an open field. There is a media gain if the IDF are filmed attacking a hospital.


...Which is why they won't openly carry or even operate from open fields.

Pants-of-dog wrote:At this point, it seems unrealistic to assume that the hospital staff are secretly being controlled by anyone and therefore their testimony, or lack thereof, cannot be discounted.

And the hospital staff have provided no testimony that Hamas was using hospitals as military centres.


I would think you'd find the argument compelling, given it's what you've been alleging elsewhere. It's also very much in line with how both capitalism and socialism work.

I assume you don't disagree with the settler colonialism claims.
#15303351
wat0n wrote:I don't think we've heard of anyone being executed for speaking against Israel, have we?

At least 100 Israelis have been arrested for social media posts supporting Palestinians in Gaza, and 70 remain in detention.


:)
#15303371
There should be 4 things that we can all agree on.

1 There has been no genocide of Ukrainians by Russians since 2014.
2 There has been no genocide of Russians by Ukrainians since 2014.
3 There was no genocide of Israelis on 10/7
4 There has been no genocide of Palestinians in Gaza since 10/7


As I've said before no one cares about genocide. No one cares that their enemy hasn't committed genocide. It was the same in World War 2, when it became clear that genocides were taking place in World War 2. No one cared. It changed nothing. No one changed sides or entered or left the war because of it.
#15303389
@wat0n

Biden has issued an executive order and sanctioned Israeli settlers in the West Bank. This might seem fairly innocuous. But as most of these fanatics are dual-citizenship Americans, they will be hard-hit. Unable to dispose of assets in the US, unable to sort out any financial problems arising from that, and unable to run home, they are stuck up a creek without a paddle.

The Israeli newspaper Haaretz suggested the move to sanction Israeli settlers was without precedent, calling it 'arguably the most punitive measure ever taken from the US government against Israeli citizens'.


:)
#15303402
ingliz wrote:@wat0n

Biden has issued an executive order and sanctioned Israeli settlers in the West Bank. This might seem fairly innocuous. But as most of these fanatics are dual-citizenship Americans, they will be hard-hit. Unable to dispose of assets in the US, unable to sort out any financial problems arising from that, and unable to run home, they are stuck up a creek without a paddle.

The Israeli newspaper Haaretz suggested the move to sanction Israeli settlers was without precedent, calling it 'arguably the most punitive measure ever taken from the US government against Israeli citizens'.


:)


I'm happy with that. I hope they are extended further to people like Ben Gvir.
#15304176
Rancid wrote:I think the slow motion genocide description is very fitting here.

I think Netanyahu's right-wing government is working on creating a fait accompli. In the process of hunting Hamas, they are going to push the Gaza population to flee and totally wreck living conditions, level housing, destroy water and power infrastructure, and then establish military occupation to "prevent the return of Hamas" which is going to make living conditions even worse.

Israel will then refuse to allow any "duel use" supplies into the Gaza Strip (such as concrete), which they have already been doing during the years Israel maintained its blockade of the Gaza Strip, which will make rebuilding impossible. Or only allow such material in under restricted and monitored observation which will make rebuilding very slow. All the while, where are the 2.2 million Palestinians expected to live?

Fait accompli....

The twist will be the West Bank. The Israelis are pushing for something to happen there. And right now settlers have been armed and issued military uniforms, and have been attacking Palestinians. Settler attacks on West Bank Palestinians have risen from 4 per day before the Gaza attack, to 8 per day now. There have been some Palestinian attacks on Settlers, such as drive-by shootings. But no major uprisings given the constant settler attacks. Which I think is amazing.

The Settlers have been emboldened by the right-wing government support. Yet we hear almost nothing about it in the Western media.

85% of Gaza's population have fled (that is 1.9 million people), over 50% of all housing in Gaza is destroyed or uninhabitable.
Satellite data shows the destruction of the buildings, but also the destruction of farmland.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68006607

Meanwhile, 11 cabinet ministers and 15 coalition members attended a conference calling for ‘voluntary migration’ of Palestinians:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/2 ... ts-in-gaza

Fait accompli.... and you all watched it happen.

They don't want to kill them, that would be wrong, they just want them to leave....
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