[Robert Urbanek]

Nat Turner was an enslaved preacher who, in August 1831, led a slave revolt that killed between 55 and 65 white people.

The rebellion did not discriminate by age or sex and the rebels killed White men, women, and children. Nat Turner confessed to killing only one person, Margaret Whitehead, whom he killed with a blow from a fence post. . . Turner said he wanted to spread "terror and alarm" among Whites. . . African Americans have generally regarded Turner as a hero of the resistance, who made enslavers pay for the hardships they had caused so many Africans and African Americans.

In 1988, Turner was selected for inclusion in the Black Americans of Achievement biography series for children, with the book Nat Turner: Slave Revolt Leader by Terry Bisson. The book's introduction was written by Coretta Scott King.

In 2017, it was announced that Turner was to be honored with others with an Emancipation and Freedom Monument statue in Richmond, Virginia. Created by Thomas Jay Warren, the state-funded bronze sculpture was dedicated in September 2021.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Turner%27s_slave_rebellion

If a Black terrorist is honored among Americans and his story is worthy of a child’s schoolbook, should we be surprised if Hamas terrorists are honored among Palestinians or even the larger populations of Arabs and Muslims?

[Potemkin]

Nat Turner was an enslaved preacher who, in August 1831, led a slave revolt that killed between 55 and 65 white people.

The rebellion did not discriminate by age or sex and the rebels killed White men, women, and children. Nat Turner confessed to killing only one person, Margaret Whitehead, whom he killed with a blow from a fence post. . . Turner said he wanted to spread "terror and alarm" among Whites. . . African Americans have generally regarded Turner as a hero of the resistance, who made enslavers pay for the hardships they had caused so many Africans and African Americans.

In 1988, Turner was selected for inclusion in the Black Americans of Achievement biography series for children, with the book Nat Turner: Slave Revolt Leader by Terry Bisson. The book's introduction was written by Coretta Scott King.

In 2017, it was announced that Turner was to be honored with others with an Emancipation and Freedom Monument statue in Richmond, Virginia. Created by Thomas Jay Warren, the state-funded bronze sculpture was dedicated in September 2021.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Turner%27s_slave_rebellion

If a Black terrorist is honored among Americans and his story is worthy of a child’s schoolbook, should we be surprised if Hamas terrorists are honored among Palestinians or even the larger populations of Arabs and Muslims?

One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter, @Robert Urbanek. Nelson Mandela was a ‘terrorist’, until he wasn’t. George Washington was a ‘terrorist’, until he wasn’t.

[Tainari88]

One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter, @Robert Urbanek. Nelson Mandela was a ‘terrorist’, until he wasn’t. George Washington was a ‘terrorist’, until he wasn’t.

Violence is a terrible thing.

But, how long do people have to deal with being terrorized or abused before they retaliate? The way you stop the cycle of violence is that the ones doing the initial oppression either stop their behavior? By way of non violent cooperation and resistance. If all the slaves all got together and agreed to either die all at once rather than be enslaved. That happened by the way in history. Or to get a weapon and kill the ones doing the killing with the same lack of humanity shown to them by their enslavers.

It reminds me of a scene from the movie Amistad.

Robert Urbanek is only thinking about the white side of the story. He should be at least balanced and think about the African slave part of the story too. But, the less empathetic usually can only see their side of the story Potemkin.

[Potemkin]

Violence is a terrible thing.

But, how long do people have to deal with being terrorized or abused before they retaliate? The way you stop the cycle of violence is that the ones doing the initial oppression either stop their behavior? By way of non violent cooperation and resistance. If all the slaves all got together and agreed to either die all at once rather than be enslaved. That happened by the way in history. Or to get a weapon and kill the ones doing the killing with the same lack of humanity shown to them by their enslavers.

It reminds me of a scene from the movie Amistad.

Robert Urbanek is only thinking about the white side of the story. He should be at least balanced and think about the African slave part of the story too. But, the less empathetic usually can only see their side of the story Potemkin.

People who have never been oppressed have no conception of what it could feel like, or the kind of response it can trigger. They lack the imagination or the empathy to even try to understand. They feel pity for themselves only.

[Tainari88]

People who have never been oppressed have no conception of what it could feel like, or the kind of response it can trigger. They lack the imagination or the empathy to even try to understand. They feel pity for themselves only.

They are the true closed minded and small minded assholes in the world then Potemkin.

I really like this scene from Harriet Tubman. She confronts (dramatically for effect of course her slave master about his conception of his property rights to her as he would a hog or a pig or something. The reality is these people are completely brainwashed by their social and economic power position. Violence unfortunately tends to wake them up....but, it is not a long term solution. Changing the laws, politics and structures of an entire society is what works in the long run. Talking with assholes who have very little real understanding of what the oppression is about is mostly a waste of time and saliva).

[wat0n]

So I take it you would both agree with this statement?

If the race is in danger of being oppressed or even exterminated the question of legality is only of secondary importance. The established power may in such a case employ only those means which are recognized as 'legal'. yet the instinct of self-preservation on the part of the oppressed will always justify, to the highest degree, the employment of all possible resources.

Only on the recognition of this principle was it possible for those struggles to be carried through, of which history furnishes magnificent examples in abundance, against foreign bondage or oppression at home.

[Potemkin]

So I take it you would both agree with this statement?

Trying to get us to agree with a Nazi or something, @wat0n?

[MadMonk]

Trying to get us to agree with a Nazi or something, @wat0n?

My instincts are telling me a late 19th - early 20th century Zionist, but yeah, a not-so subtle trap laid by brother @wat0n

[wat0n]

Trying to get us to agree with a Nazi or something, @wat0n?

I don't know, you tell me.

It seems claims of experiencing oppression are used to justify murdering children all the time.

It's one reason, among others, why the oppression olympics of our current postmodern left is so toxic.

[Potemkin]

I don't know, you tell me.

It seems claims of experiencing oppression are used to justify murdering children all the time.

It's one reason, among others, why the oppression olympics of our current postmodern left is so toxic.

So Nat Turner was just a woke SJW, eh @wat0n?

[Rich]

I really like this scene from Harriet Tubman. She confronts (dramatically for effect of course her slave master about his conception of his property rights to her as he would a hog or a pig or something. The reality is these people are completely brainwashed by their social and economic power position. Violence unfortunately tends to wake them up

The reality is this scene never happened. His character is pure invention or slander if you prefer. Even the paid slave hunter seems to have been an invention.

Birth of a Nation (2016) is even worse. Why do the Hollywood Liberals not show Nat's men decapitating the baby as happened in real life?

[wat0n]

So Nat Turner was just a woke SJW, eh @wat0n?

Are those who glorify him woke SJWs?

[Rich]

Are those who glorify him woke SJWs?

Well I've been a long time glorifier of Nat Turner. Indeed its many years since I first proposed that Washington DC should be renamed Nat Turner City. Having the Capitol and a state named after the same person is stupid. I suggest that Washington State keeps its name. Having the home of Microsoft named after a slave owner seems entirely appropriate. I have also glorified John Brown, Herschel Grynszpan and Lee Harvey Oswald. With the latter two, I am more concerned with the principle then their actual personal motivations, or in the last case whether he even did it.

In the case of Nat Turner, i would emphasise I'm glorifying his personal acutalisation. I am glorifying him as a Nietzschean super man, not necessarily glorifying his methods as a practical path to reform or revolution. You see there was a very obvious solution to Nat Turners uprising, that was not to let slaves learn to read. It also had other reactionary effects such as driving out many of the free black Africans from the south. The easiest most direct route to the emancipation of slaves in the American South was through the development of a free Black African Middle class and a high skill slave aristocracy. The fastest way to develop a Black African Middle class in the American South was through Black Africans becoming slave owners. Shockingly the level of slave ownership amongst free Black Africans was the same as Europeans.

[Potemkin]

Well I've been a long time glorifies of Nat Turner. Indeed its many years since I first proposed that Washington DC should be renamed Nat Turner City. Having the Capitol and a state named after the same person is stupid. I suggest that Washington State keeps its name. Having the home of Microsoft named after a slave owner seems entirely appropriate. I have also glorified John Brown, Herschel Grynszpan and Lee Harvey Oswald. With the latter two, I am more concerned with the principle then their actual personal motivations, or in the last case whether he even did it.

In the case of Nat Turner, i would emphasise I'm glorifying his personal acutalisation. I am glorifying him as a Nietzschean super man, not necessarily glorifying his methods as a practical path to reform or revolution. You see there was a very obvious solution to Nat Turners uprising, that was not to let slaves learn to read. It also had other reactionary effects such as driving out many of the free black Africans from the south. The easisest most direct route to the emancipation of slaves in the American South was through the development of a free Black African Middle class and a high skill slave aristocracy. The fastest way to develop a Black African Middle class in the American South was through Black Africans becoming slave owners. Shockingly the level of slave ownership amongst free Black Africans was the same as Europeans.

White Roman citizens owned white slaves, so why shouldn’t black American citizens own black slaves? The issues of slavery and of racism are closely entwined together in American culture, but this is actually historically anomalous. Most people in ancient Rome had no problem with slavery, and most people in 18th or 19th century America had no problem with slavery either. Not even black Americans. After all, black Africans owned black slaves.

[Tainari88]

White Roman citizens owned white slaves, so why shouldn’t black American citizens own black slaves? The issues of slavery and of racism are closely entwined together in American culture, but this is actually historically anomalous. Most people in ancient Rome had no problem with slavery, and most people in 18th or 19th century America had no problem with slavery either. Not even black Americans. After all, black Africans owned black slaves.

It was an economic institution and it was a way of getting wealthy. You owned slaves you had high social and economic status. The human rights of the people they owned were immaterial. Until the war happened.

Everything ends when the society either has changed economic models, or can't sustain the old system due to technological, industrial, or economic model evolutions. People are highly prone to a lack of thought regarding human rights and universally sustainable wages for many nations or cultures. They have to have some subordinated to the will of a tiny minority of owners.

But, it always leads to a bad situation in history. I wish they would learn. Spread human rights and decent labor laws and standards and the vast majority then have money to spend, more freedoms, and in the end the economies become decent. But no, they have to insist on a form of total subjugation. It is seriously handicapped and retrograde thinking.

How are you this morning Pote? Happy Sunday darling. It is the dark before dawn again in Mexico here. It is so quiet except for the roosters crowing.

[Tainari88]

The reality is this scene never happened. His character is pure invention or slander if you prefer. Even the paid slave hunter seems to have been an invention.

Birth of a Nation (2016) is even worse. Why do the Hollywood Liberals not show Nat's men decapitating the baby as happened in real life?

The solution to all this violence and bloodletting is simple. Do not take people's freedom away from them and oppress them to the point of not having basic human rights. You want to avoid immigration to the UK, USA, Australia, and every other nation that is not on the edge of becoming Third World (some of the above-mentioned parts of all those nations are possible candidates in the future)--all you need to do Rich is create safety nets, mental health supports, and decent wages for all. Rights. Human rights. Labor rights. Dignified housing, dignified food, dignified water, dignified education, and dignified and respectful societies where just because you come from the working class and your bank account is small does not mean disrespect for all time. That shit has to go Rich.

Just respect human rights. If you do not like a culture who says you have to socialize? But you better pay them the same as your culture's members get for the same work. Education, health, housing, and wages need to be fair and not discriminatory. I basically hate class systems. Never liked them. All they do is relegate the vast majority to limited existences and constant stress to an early grave. it helps no one in the long run.

But haters got to hate. Hating on people just looking for dignity and respect.

And it is something all humans have to do.

That is the end of my Sunday speech for you Rich. Stop wanting a perfect color-coded world with all white people in England, all Black people in South Africa and Senegal, and all Indian people in Guatemala. It is not going to happen my main man. The Lego color box has been mixed up forever. I say enjoy the colors and make something beautiful out of it.

That is the solution.

¿Ricardito, que sueles hacer para entretenerte los domingos además de querer joder con mis opiniones eh?

[Potemkin]

It was an economic institution and it was a way of getting wealthy. You owned slaves you had high social and economic status. The human rights of the people they owned were immaterial. Until the war happened.

Exactly. And the vast majority of human beings, black or white or any colour in between, are motivated by personal material gain - they want to acquire wealth and status, and owning slaves was a good route to achieving those things. The few people who opposed slavery did so for primarily religious reasons - it’s no accident that John Brown was a religious fanatic and Nat Turner was a lay preacher who had religious visions all his life.

Everything ends when the society either has changed economic models, or can't sustain the old system due to technological, industrial, or economic model evolutions. People are highly prone to a lack of thought regarding human rights and universally sustainable wages for many nations or cultures. They have to have some subordinated to the will of a tiny minority of owners.

Progress is the expansion of the forces of production. Slavery was doomed, not because everyone had some sort of sudden revelation that enslaving people was morally wrong, but because a new mode of production emerged which was more efficient and more profitable than slavery - industrial capitalism using free labour. And during the Civil War, the North’s industrial capacity simply overwhelmed the South.

But, it always leads to a bad situation in history. I wish they would learn. Spread human rights and decent labor laws and standards and the vast majority then have money to spend, more freedoms, and in the end the economies become decent. But no, they have to insist on a form of total subjugation. It is seriously handicapped and retrograde thinking.

Human folly and venality will never end, querida. But fortunately, progress doesn’t depend just on human goodwill, as Marx pointed out.

How are you this morning Pote? Happy Sunday darling. It is the dark before dawn again in Mexico here. It is so quiet except for the roosters crowing.

I feel fine this morning, Tainari. Merida is a beautiful city.

[Tainari88]

Exactly. And the vast majority of human beings, black or white or any colour in between, are motivated by personal material gain - they want to acquire wealth and status, and owning slaves was a good route to achieving those things. The few people who opposed slavery did so for primarily religious reasons - it’s no accident that John Brown was a religious fanatic and Nat Turner was a lay preacher who had religious visions all his life.


Progress is the expansion of the forces of production. Slavery was doomed, not because everyone had some sort of sudden revelation that enslaving people was morally wrong, but because a new mode of production emerged which was more efficient and more profitable than slavery - industrial capitalism using free labour. And during the Civil War, the North’s industrial capacity simply overwhelmed the South.


Human folly and venality will never end, querida. But fortunately, progress doesn’t depend just on human goodwill, as Marx pointed out.


I feel fine this morning, Tainari. Merida is a beautiful city.

If you allow these lack of conscience type of corporations, companies and enterprises to be left alone to their own devices? Their greed knows no bounds.

These people had to be sanctioned for using child labor of iffy origins. Most of the USA would collapse economically without Latin American labor. That is reality. Remember the talks we had about how many industries in the USA rely on Latin American labor? In the ski resorts and hotels of Colorado, the restaurants, the landscaping and construction business, the catering businesses, the marijuana harvesting businesses, the parking attendants, the laundry businesses, housekeeping in hospitals, I mean it is endless, the amount of cheap Latin American labor the USA does. Yet, they moan about Latino illegal immigration like hypocritical clownish liars....it is incredible the hypocrisy.

They did a do not work today boycott in Colorado for all Latino workers for the entire state. The governor was astounded at how the entire state ground to a halt. They freaked out. But, let them keep complaining and blowing it out their rear ends...talking bullshit.

It is not going to change their reality. And the children of those low-skilled workers will have kids who are going to get middle-class jobs and above. In the future. What are they going to do then? Prohibit Latin American labor until they become real Americans. Pass laws saying you can not send money to other Latam nations because they might benefit from it? They are assholes Potemkin.

The supposedly fake liberal Biden administration also does not prioritize these issues. The corporations win.

[wat0n]

Would illegal immigrants from Latin America be justified in smashing the head of American children until immigration reform happens?

[Potemkin]

Would illegal immigrants from Latin America be justified in smashing the head of American children until immigration reform happens?

Would President Lincoln be justified in fighting a brutal civil war until the southern states return to the Union and abolish slavery?