Seamen wrote:You know, I really dont understand why should Israel treat differently to a terrorist organization who's aim is to destroy Israel.
Why should the Palestinians treat Israel differently? It is an organization dedicated to destroying them.
Your analysis only works if one side is wholly innocent of all action in this conflict, unfortunately Israel is as innocent as Hamas.
Danholo wrote:Intrigue can arouse many emotions. I don't think research is needed to abhor death and misery, though...
I didn't need the research to be disgusted by the horror of war, if anything my research has expanded my understanding of how much like animals mankind can become during battle - when all sense of right or wrong is blurred. When a soldier has been killing the "enemy" for days, does it matter that they start to put their hands up and wave white flags - their still just as easy to kill, why be bothered with looking after prisoners when all you really want is 40 winks in whatever safe hole you can fine?
To think that the warriors in this conflict, be they militant fighters or trained soldiers, are any different or indifferent to this sort of behavior - is foolhardy.
Danholo wrote:OMG! You destroyed a UN school! YOU'RE EVIL AND MUST BE DESTROYED!
You, as anybody else here, is totally oblivious to my attitude. You're honestly under the impression that a mere 3 months after coming to Israel, I have become that blood-thirsty Jewish warrior, which Israelis are portrayed as in the media...? I am only a product of the world I'm surrounded by, tailz. How should I respond when people entirely disconnected from reality are expressing their desire to see another nation (Israel) destroyed because of their perceived notion of justice? You are certainly not among them, but I am infuriated when people who claim to defend human rights disregard the human rights of "the few": "It's that shitty little country that's creating all the ills of the world." (Scapegoating... anyone?) My diatribe was indeed made solely for shock-value, but it's not entirely disconnected from reality. (It also included some tragicomic features which would've exposed the nature of my "intention" (dude... incestuous orgies, which not even possible when you're under rubble) donkeys? come on...)... I want death to be quick if its inevitable...)
Certainly I am oblivious to your attitude, my crystal ball was lost in the post and my telepathy has never really been that good - all I or anyone else has to go by is your written word. And over the last few Months, like Nets, the opinions you have expressed via your writings that I have read have been drifting further towards the hard line perspective. Although before this slow shift, you never came across as being a centrist Zionist like Nets at times is, you do seem to be more, staunch in your support towards Zionist actions and ideals - I can only assume this change has been brought on by your being there - thus I do agree, your opinions are a product of your environment. The world as you wish to see it, and how it is seen by those around you. It is up to you to pull the mask from your face - only you can do it.
As for media portrayal of Israel, I have to disagree with your analysis - but once again this can depend upon the media outlet in question - Western media from what I have seen, is very supportive of Israel. Although bigoted ideals that would be looked down upon in our Western media is discredited as for what it is - and deservedly so - which in itself can come across to ardent Zionists as anti-semitism, simply because it criticizes Israel, and thus to their eyes and ears, Jews. Unfortunately the cry of anti-semite has been so overused, it now suffers like a fairy-tale boy's cry of wolf. Middle eastern media, puppets of various masters - have a greater change of leaning one way or the other in their presentation of information relating to this conflict, and I include Israeli media outlets in that analysis.
Israel is not evil, it is not that shitty little country filled full of bloodthirsty Jewish warriors. But like it or not, accept this truth or put your faith in lie, there are people in Israel who use the original good intentions of Zionism, to do what ever you would call, evil. I agree that there is a lot of scapegoating going on, not only of Israel, but also of the Palestinians - but is that to mean all accusations are just another attempt to displace blame from one to the other - I disagree.
As to your diatribe of shock-value pose, unfortunately I far too often am slow to grasp the subtle differences between when people are being serious, and those instances when sarcasm or satire were the intended purpose - thus why i reported my own comments in the Basement Forum. I humbly apologies Danholo for not reading the intent from your written text. Unfortunately I have far too many times come across persons who indeed hold to such opinions that you provided as a comical juxtaposition of the situation.
Danholo wrote:If a country decides to go to war, expect casualties and destruction. This will include the following: babies, retarded babies, women, pregnant women, teachers, music teachers, other handicapped, elderly, doctors, sick doctors, human rights workers, Imams.... homes, shops, schools, places of worship, hospitals, daycares, old-aged homes, you name it. In the end, a building's only purpose is to serve as shelter. I can only imagine the shit storm when a headline reads "UN SCHOOL DESTROYED BY IDF FORCES" (some read: "Those evil Jews destroyed a bastion of everything that is good and right in this world!")
People dying in war is an unfortunate fact of conflict, as much as it should be avoided - thus why I do not hold Israel totally responsible for civilian deaths when we consider militant activities that contribute to why those civilians are slain. But nether should that absolve Israel of the injustice of killing innocent people. The same as the Militants can not be absolved of their crimes even though they fight for a justifiable cause as well.
Why do you see such a media headline? Is it just your imagination reacting to that which conflicts with what you have placed your faith in?
Danholo wrote:Soldiers follow rules of engagement. Hamas terrorists do not (or maybe they do but they are not the same rules as a conventional standing army, but rules that will grant them benefit). Would you at least grant those Israeli fighters some lee-way knowing what sort of circumstances Hamas' tactics create on the ground? I have no reason to believe, contrary to some on this board, that the troops who destroyed the school had any malicious intention to do so (I know Israelis, they won't go all "barbarian" even if their animosity towards Arabs would be at its worst). I won't condemn, or praise it. They are acting on orders... being shot at requires to respond; You can't carry out your mission when dead. Call me inhumane, sure, but it's also within everybody's sensibilities to understand that soldiers are human. They will follow rules, use their best judgment and, at worst, even make mistakes, or go berserk. In other words, if a threat emanates from "SCHOOL" or "HOSPITAL", you will fire back. Not destroying "UN SCHOOL" when it's being used for non-scholastic behavior is rewarding its use as a military fortification. Is this "discarding the ethics of lower Gentiles"? I'm sorry for attacking your religion but I will surely discard any ethics that attribute holiness to the unholy. So I damn well hope that the IDF (or any army for that matter) destroys every damn school, kindergarten, mosque, chicken roost or hospital that comes in their way.
You place a level of faith in the proposed good intentions, the honorable intentions of the IDF, of soldiers whom you may know - guys who have "got your back" in times of need. But soldiers are human beings, they are not machines fulfilling programming. And human beings are prone to emotions, to rash thinking, to acting out when angry. We can rationalize that all soldiers are well trained and follow orders, they follow the rules of engagement and aim to bring no shame down upon themselves, their unit, or their Nation - but some do, and in war, many get away with it. In this respect, Israeli soldiers are no different than any other soldiers - or Militant fighters who believe that they are fighting for what is right and good.
Danholo wrote:If people here would actually follow the doctrine that was "expressed" by my previous diatribe, that would be the case. Unfortunately, some people perceive it to be like that already; a war of genocide and ethnic cleansing. So what difference does it make what I say? Really? On the other hand, war time polarizes even the most tolerant. Hamas is the perfect scapegoat. It's against everything Israelis hold dear.
It really depends upon what Israel holds dear? But regardless, this can only be a war of annihilation for as long as Israel is proposed as a state based on one race and faith - for it to become so it must overrun all identities and supplant them with that single identity in order to achieve such a goal. You may think of yourself as a moderate, or left or right wing, but the movement you support, can only lead to conflict between faiths and races in order to achieve its goal in a land of many faiths and ethnic groups. And thus the conflict will continue for as long as those who give the entity of Israel motion, covet land for their chosen ones above all others.
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