[Okonkwo]

If we can rally one side, we should be able to rally a different side. Now, what's on the left of 'Social Democracy' probably won't agree on much with what's on the right, but we should see how it goes.

All right then, I agree that we should at least try it out.

How many people are going to contribute to this?

I'd be up for it, I'll see what I can do to provide a pragmatic centre-left approach to contemporary politics. Perhaps I'll just write an article about the similarities and differences between revolutionary and reformist leftism.

[Dave]

This is a genuine question: would you contribute in the form of criticism, or in the form of defence of this or that economic aspect of Socialism? To keep a blog-form coherent with the ideological categorisation put in place by Fox, criticism should be, in my opinion, posted in the discussion topic of a given article, while defence should be used to make articles in the first place.

But I'm saying that as a participant for the blog.

The latter. I am certainly not a "fan" of socialism, but criticisms levied against it are generally either dishonest or unfair. I have studied central planning theory (both in capitalist and socialist economies) in detail, and probably have a much greater understanding of the economics of socialism than most leftists here.

[Potemkin]

I bet you can.

Shouldn't we try to limit people of different ideologies trolling on the blogs of others? Otherwise, what's the point? Maybe make it so only certain ideologies set in the User Control Panel can enter different blogs?

Actually, he can. We have become too used to the modern brain-dead critics of socialism in America nowadays, who seem to genuinely believe that everyone was paid the same salary in the Soviet Union no matter what their job and that Stalin ate babies for breakfast and had a shrine to Satan in his Kremlin office. Dave is a throwback to an earlier time in American political culture when people actually took the trouble to educate themselves about what they were criticising. Dave has real in-depth knowledge about socialist economic theory and practice. He may have trollish tendencies on occasion, but he's capable of keeping those in check. Right, Dave?

[ingliz]

Is this blog intended as an educational tool? I mean should we keep it orthodox, 'orthodox' according to some recognised faction's or fraction's ideology, or are we free to explore Marxism

[Dr House]

Stalin ate babies for breakfast and had a shrine to Satan in his Kremlin office

I thought he ate kittens for breakfast, and babies for lunch.

[Potemkin]

I thought he ate kittens for breakfast, and babies for lunch.

No, he actually shredded kittens in a blender and then smoked their twitching flesh in his pipe. He definitely had babies for breakfast, lightly grilled with a sidehelping of ketchup. An easy mistake to make.

[Erebus]

This is a genuine question: would you contribute in the form of criticism, or in the form of defence of this or that economic aspect of Socialism? To keep a blog-form coherent with the ideological categorisation put in place by Fox, criticism should be, in my opinion, posted in the discussion topic of a given article, while defence should be used to make articles in the first place.

Yes, I'd post with more of a critical tone and less of a defensive point of view.

[KurtFF8]

I'd like to contribute. Will the blog have a specific focus? E.g. Current Events from a leftist perspective, specifics of theory, etc.?

[+Soma+]

Perhaps I'll just write an article about the similarities and differences between revolutionary and reformist leftism.

Okonkwo, I would support the social- democratic blog I already have written a paper on this issue and Eduard Bernstein`s "Die Voraussetzung des Sozialismus und die Aufgaben der Sozialdemokratie".

[DDave3]

Thanks to HaniSoit for the PM.

I am more than happy to contribute to a great Leftist debate from a comfortably centre-lift, social democrat, position.

[HoniSoit]

DDave3 - no problem. I've replied your PM.

I'd like to contribute. Will the blog have a specific focus? E.g. Current Events from a leftist perspective, specifics of theory, etc.?

The blog is supposed to be a mix of both and more. So really, feel free to write about any topic you like, perhaps starting with something about the Obama administration?

[Abood]

Thanks Adrien for telling me about this.

Would the blog allow a critical leftist? I'm definitely a leftist, but I'm critical of many elements of leftism--both new and traditional.

[HoniSoit]

Would the blog allow a critical leftist?

Definitely. It's really great to get different leftist perspectives even though they may sometimes contradict. Have you got a topic in mind, Abood?

[KurtFF8]

I mean this in all seriousness: I thought you were no longer a leftist, Abood. You seem to have become a liberal/social democrat and even have come off as conservative at some points recently.

What do you consider yourself now?

[HoniSoit]

...asked, a liberal Marxist.

[Abood]

I mean this in all seriousness: I thought you were no longer a leftist, Abood. You seem to have become a liberal/social democrat and even have come off as conservative at some points recently.

What do you consider yourself now?

I saw that coming.

I'm a pragmatic democratic/libertarian socialist.

I criticize Marxists, but I have a lot in common with them.

I criticize anarchists, but I have a lot in common with them.

I criticize democratic socialists, but I have a lot in common with them.

I criticize the Green movement and believe that a huge chunk of it is a sham, but I'm an environmentalist.

I come off as conservative because I don't criticize rightists as much as I criticize leftists, which is because I think it's overdone. If we want change, we should try to improve. I also believe we should cooperate: socialists and social democrats. I don't like die-hard radicalism. I don't like it when people oppose progress just because "it's not enough". Slow progress is better than no progress. And then they call me a conservative bourgeois. Quite ironic.

Have you got a topic in mind, Abood?

There are a lot of things somewhere in my mind, but I can't think of any specific topic.

[KurtFF8]

...asked, a liberal Marxist.

Of course Eauz has inspired you here! I'm no liberal Marxist, he himself had no real argument to show that. Although he said it was mostly a joke, he thought that I had more sympathy for bourgeois welfare states than I actually do.

I saw that coming.

I'm a pragmatic democratic/libertarian socialist.

I criticize Marxists, but I have a lot in common with them.

I criticize anarchists, but I have a lot in common with them.

I criticize democratic socialists, but I have a lot in common with them.

I criticize the Green movement and believe that a huge chunk of it is a sham, but I'm an environmentalist.

You also defend racist states like Israel, and seem to be quite an apologists for liberal capitalist systems.

I come off as conservative because I don't criticize rightists as much as I criticize leftists, which is because I think it's overdone. If we want change, we should try to improve. I also believe we should cooperate: socialists and social democrats. I don't like die-hard radicalism. I don't like it when people oppose progress just because "it's not enough". Slow progress is better than no progress. And then they call me a conservative bourgeois. Quite ironic.

Inter-left fighting isn't overdone? Perhaps you're just not aware of the history of working class movements.

Social democrats and socialists have completely different goals and means of achieving their goals. Social democrats are just as much class enemies to working people as Reagan. This article is a good display of what I'm talking about.

[Abood]

You also defend racist states like Israel

I do no such thing. I believe Israel has much of a right to exist as Palestine, or any other state, but I do not defend it or its actions. Just because I don't support the boycott doesn't mean I defend it.

Inter-left fighting isn't overdone?

Who's talking about inter-left fighting? I'm talking about self-criticism. There's a big difference. I know inter-left fighting is overdone. That's why I think the left should cooperate.

Social democrats and socialists have completely different goals and means of achieving their goals. Social democrats are just as much class enemies to working people as Reagan.

Very simplistic.

Social democracy is progress in the right direction and you know it. It's not enough, but it's progress nonetheless.

If social democracy becomes the status quo and socialism gets more support, you can oppose it as much as you like. Today, we can't afford to.

I'm not saying give up on your socialism and become social democratic. Be a socialist all you want, but sometimes it's important to compromise to progress.

Either way, whether you want to call me a social democrat or a socialist, they both seem to be accepted in this blog, so I see no need to further discuss this.

[KurtFF8]

I do no such thing. I believe Israel has much of a right to exist as Palestine, or any other state, but I do not defend it or its actions. Just because I don't support the boycott doesn't mean I defend it.

You've certainly done a poor job at demonstrating your opposition to Zionism and Israel

Social democracy is progress in the right direction and you know it. It's not enough, but it's progress nonetheless.

It's a fundamentally different battle. Social Democrats believe that what needs to be fought are the negative symptoms of capitalism while socialists believe that capitalism itself is the problem and would like to replace it with a system based on human development and worker ownership. This is something that social democrats outright reject, which is the basis for socialism.

If social democracy becomes the status quo and socialism gets more support, you can oppose it as much as you like. Today, we can't afford to.

I'm not saying give up on your socialism and become social democratic. Be a socialist all you want, but sometimes it's important to compromise to progress.

And as history has shown, it doesn't do much to bring about worker ownership over the means of production, and all of the gains made are quite easily rolled back.

[Abood]

We'll just try living in one blog. If the socialists and social democrats split, I'll probably create my own blog.