Economics - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Discourse exclusively on the basis of historical materialist methodology.
Forum rules: No one line posts please. This forum is for discussion based on Marxism, Marxism-Leninism and similar revisions. Critique of topics not based on historical materialism belongs in the general Communism forum.
User avatar
By Kasu
#1860839
Right, no one implied ballot-box democracy.
User avatar
By MB.
#1861218
Can either of you elaborate how the social democratic method of production would function, considering that a ballot box/representative system would be out of the question?
User avatar
By Vladimir
#1861742
I see the production for need being achieved through a system of interaction between industrial workers' councils and geographical workers' councils. The former by their nature are representative of a given chain of production, and the latter of a given chain of consumption. An interactive body, which would handle inputs and outputs going to and fro both directions, would need to exist in order to create systematic interaction and a degree of automatisation of the process of producing for direct needs. No doubt it would be a very intensive and manual process to start with, with heavy involvement from both council spheres, but gradually it would sharpen, adapt and systematise the bidirectional feedback mechanism.
Also in order to function globally, it would need to be a single organisation, which means it would be an integral structure of the global proletarian state, administered by functionaries appointed by a council delegates' assembly (who would be in charge of the state and delegated by the industrial and geographical workers' councils); i.e. the very councils that will require mediation will appoint the mediators.
Of course, this process will at first have to rely on mechanisms inherited from capitalism; e.g. the infrastructure of state monitoring/inspection agencies and buffer stock silos, customs hubs, stock monitoring programs, etc.
User avatar
By MB.
#1862364
What is the end-goal of the system of organization you propose, vladimir? Complete automation of the processes of production?
User avatar
By Vladimir
#1862587
To organise a collectively owned socialist economy? It's in your own question:
How is the production of goods enabled and how are these goods distributed in a socialist economy? Do workers and agriculturists democratically elect what goods they will produce, or is central planning the answer?
User avatar
By Eauz
#1869472
MB. wrote:Can either of you elaborate how the social democratic method of production would function, considering that a ballot box/representative system would be out of the question?
Sorry for the delay, but I've been quite busy at work and have had no time to reply.

The point that is important for the continued discussion of this topic is still within the original post I provided at the top of this thread. In order for productivity to be viewed in any form of realistic development, the economic goals of society must be placed within the mindset of class-in-and-for-itself. This could be developed through an education program or whatever one desires, but the goal is to create a general understanding of productivity within the understanding of class-in-and-for-itself.

Once this is understood, and keeping in mind we are living under a socialist society that is in transition towards a classless society, we can move forward with what is required in regard to goods and services. Without getting involved with utopian dreams and reductionist goals, productivity could be seen in terms of what is required within the communities of society. We must first remember that without capitalism, a lot of the normal needs, such as the need to go to work at 8:30 AM and leave at 4:30 PM (bus, car, need coffee, etc.) are gone, since productivity is based in the needs of the society & the individual, both being inter-connected, not seperated, as they are under capitalism. Equally enough, why attempt to waste labour when the technology exists to perform them without labour? Labour could be allocated to centralised locations of society where productivity occurs, rather than waste the time and energy to allow individuals to find their own way to each of the locations where their place of employment is located. However, there is no need to seperate leisure time with work time and it would be the goal of developing socialism to attempt to eliminate this seperation between leisure time and work time, to create a combined understanding of the important role both play within society.
User avatar
By MB.
#1872861
Equally enough, why attempt to waste labour when the technology exists to perform them without labour?


What are you thoughts on the subject of the abundance society? Also, does Marx address the concept of the abundant society in any of his writings (excuse my ignorance)?
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