[Ademir]

I don't recall saying anything about guerilla warfare

But to think that somehow the proletariat won't require guns to defeat the state seems... hopelessly optimistic

[ninurta]

I think that "money" should be optional. I think what constitutes as "money" in an anarchist society is an issue. What will you use as money? Paper would be a bad idea, just simply because it can lead to the formation of a state.

Though if you use resources as currency, and protect your resources through alliances. such "alliances" would be the people you also trade with. the trade isn't inter-community, but inter-personal.

[Antihero]

Money is a matter of choice. If one autonomous zone wants currency, so be it. The whole point of Anarchism is to randomize the society. Otherwise it'll be thousands of same little zones occupied by same little people, and it will just go back to capitalist government again.

[SpiderMonkey]

Money is simply a collective agreement, to divide the output of society into equal units, and then use these in trade. Problem is, when money is distributed unevenly there is no reason the people on the bottom rung to continue to abide by the collective agreement. This is where state force comes in.

Absent state force, any conventional money system will swiftly collapse therefore. Accounting of output will likely still occur, but not in ways familiar to residents of current nations.

[Figlio di Moros]

Absent state force, any conventional money system will swiftly collapse therefore. Accounting of output will likely still occur, but not in ways familiar to residents of current nations.

Then theorize for us, what kind of money would I be carrying in my wallet?

[ninurta]

The money is whatever you and the person you trade with are counting as money. Whether it be just simply bartering or using pieces of gold or paper as money. Whatever you feel should be money, and the other person agrees, or vice a versa is money.

As for antihero's statement, you are correct. (how do you quote?)

[ninurta]

The money you would carry would be whatever you and the person you are trading with agreed to use as money.

[canadiancapitalist]

Money is not established by social contract - it arises naturally on the market place. Money is a commodity - the most commonly desired commodity in a given economy. While it is true you and someone else could agree to use lumber as currency, that wouldn't make it money, unless you convinced a plurality of the people to go along with you. Obviously they would not, since gold is much better money then lumber.

[ninurta]

In an anarchist society, how would you make a "universal" currency? Is it possible? maybe gold, but who said people will want to use it. Whatever is used as money in anarchy would be based on social contract. Otherwise, say you make anarchist dollars. who has the right to make the currency?

[canadiancapitalist]

Since money arose out of natural phenomenon and not through the state I do not see how it is really a problem. You don't need to "make" gold a currency, people will choose it (unless something better comes along). If you want proof just go back in time (via the magic of books) and see how money first arose. Many things were tried but they always settled on gold. It's easily divisible, doesn't wear out, high value to weight ratio, etc.

[Suska]

why the heck would i want to carry metal around?

suppose labor hours is our domestic unit trade would seem then to have to go through the state.

The barter system works pretty well.

I'm not comfortable with the state being the sole employer, or even a competitor with corporations. I can see it working, but not on a multi-cultural national scale. I don't think people should be organized according to occupation but community. People need to live in a real world with variety and meaning beyond mechanized revenue streams and funneled profits. I'm not sure how to achieve this, but I suspect America wants too many different things too passionately for anything but a very limited federal government and pronounced variety of state government. In which case we will need to agree on money and army.

say we set up an electronics system involving some sort of biometrics id so we don't even need to think about money. wouldn't that be nice?

[ninurta]

why the heck would i want to carry metal around?

The barter system works pretty well.

Quoted for truth!

[kummi90]

Let's make water a universal currency! Yes that might work. It seems more useful than paper bills or metals, and the general demand for water seems more rational

Seriously, any currency would work as long as the two party's involved in the trade agree upon it.

[Suska]

Yes that might work.

No that would never work.

[ninurta]

No that would never work.

Care to elaborate? I said you were right the bartering system works, and yes it does, as for never, it still works for those who use it. Just curious, what made you change your mind?

[Suska]

barter is all inclusive, of course you could trade water for something else. What you couldn't do is use water as a standard currency. If paper works then an electronic/plastic unit would work, but there's security matters that still need to be dealt with. Fiat currency has its problems, but transparency and security measures could easily be devised. Implementation is another matter.

[ninurta]

barter is all inclusive, of course you could trade water for something else. What you couldn't do is use water as a standard currency. If paper works then an electronic/plastic unit would work, but there's security matters that still need to be dealt with. Fiat currency has its problems, but transparency and security measures could easily be devised. Implementation is another matter.

Ummm......I never said I would use water, or anything as a standard currency. Maybe I missed what you meant by standard currency, but I don't think that kind of thing on any basis would work, it has too many problems with it. My view of a bartering system is that all materials would replace money, it would be like the tribal villages in south america's capitalism. Where you carry your bows and arrows or whatever to trade for whatever you need from your ally tribal village. that kind of thing.

I see what you mean, but when you make a standard/universal money system eventually someone has more and therefore ends up with control of the money supply. Therefore creating as state when they've bought everything.

[Suska]

I never said I would use water, or anything as a standard currency.

Let's make water a universal currency

yeah, barter is great for a lot of things, but it has some limitations especially international trade. I think it should be used as much as possible now in America seeing as our Grifternment and Banksters are killing our currency.I dunno if the dollar is gonna die, it sure aint healthy though, we're all kinda at a death watch right now - the aunts and uncles are eyeing the furniture and what-not. Probably it will pull through and another over-the-top course correction will send us flying back to the right... not the correct sort of right, or real right mind you unless Libertarianism can get there in time. Its just that feeding the economy bullshit at this point in time is probably gonna touch off a global war or a breakdown of the American Union.

[ninurta]

"I never said I would use water, or anything as a standard currency." [as you quoted me]

"Let's make water a universal currency" [Don't make kummi's words appear like they are mine]

yeah, barter is great for a lot of things, but it has some limitations especially international trade. I think it should be used as much as possible now in America seeing as our Grifternment and Banksters are killing our currency.I dunno if the dollar is gonna die, it sure aint healthy though, we're all kinda at a death watch right now - the aunts and uncles are eyeing the furniture and what-not. Probably it will pull through and another over-the-top course correction will send us flying back to the right... not the correct sort of right, or real right mind you unless Libertarianism can get there in time. Its just that feeding the economy bullshit at this point in time is probably gonna touch off a global war or a breakdown of the American Union.

Ah in time the economy here will fix itself, but you have some points here.

I added my commentary in parenthesis, just to say that you plagarized my point if you were trying to quote me, you quoted kummi.

[Suska]

just to say that you plagarized my point if you were trying to quote me, you quoted kummi.

shit, im sorry