Racist Melbourne Bus Attack - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By AVT
#14112631
Police in the Australian city of Melbourne are investigating the verbal abuse of a French-speaking woman travelling on a bus in which she was told by a man to "speak English or die". The verbal abuse, captured on video by another passenger, shows a second man threatening to cut the woman with a knife.

"I'll fucking boxcutter you right now, you bitch, if you talk to my missus like that," said the male passenger, who was pushing a baby buggy, during the footage, which sparked national discussion on the level of racism and xenophobia in Australia. To varying degrees all Australian states and territories have laws against racial vilification.

The incident began after the woman started singing a French song, according to another passenger on the bus, Mike Nayna. Nayna – whose YouTube video drew attention to the ugly incident – said another female passenger on the bus started to chant "Aussie, Aussie, Aussie" in reply. Nayna, a comedian who turned the footage into an extended commentary on racism in Australia, said the French woman continued to sing, prompting a tirade of abuse from another male passenger.

"Speak English or die, motherfucker," the abuser says in the video. He then appears to threaten to "cut the bitch's tits off".

Melbourne, Australia's second-largest city, has large migrant communities and the spread of the video is a setback for the image it cultivates of being Australia's most culturally sophisticated metropolitan centre.

Media outlets described the incident as "shocking" and an ugly attack. One columnist described the perpetrators of the abuse as idiots who were being "caught on camera to their shame, and to our international embarrassment".

Listeners to one of Melbourne's talk back radio stations, 3AW, described the verbal attack as "disgusting" and "embarrassing". One said: "To the poor woman who had to endure such abuse, I hope you don't think all Australians act like this because we don't. The guy needs to be taught a lesson."

A spokeswoman from the French embassy in Australia, Lydie Bertrand, said the embassy has not been contacted by the woman who was the target of the abuse. "We disapprove of such attitudes towards these young French girls. The incident is regrettable but isolated," she said.

Nayna told Melbourne's Herald Sun newspaper: "It was just weird mob mentality. They [the abusers] were feeding off each other and breaking off into rant and encouraging each other over some racist stuff. It was like a bonding session."

Nayna said another of the passengers offered the abuser a beer and the use of his fishing knife. "Then he went off in a rant about filleting people and saying 'They're just scared cunts at the back of the bus'."

One of the men who had shouted abuse at the French woman got off the bus with his wife and child and taunted the victim to get off as well.

"Yeah, come on cunt, get off. Fucking ding, look at ya. You've been told about four times, get off," he said. Moments after he stepped off the bus he apparently smashed one of the bus windows, shocking passengers who called out for the driver to shut the doors and drive off.

The other abuser told the French woman that everyone on the bus wanted to kill her and that she would have to "get off eventually, bitch".

Victorian police say they are investigating the incident, which took place on 11 November at about 10.30pm, and have called for witnesses to come forward.

The case has fuelled debate about xenophobic and racist attitudes in Australia. In 2010 India issued a travel warning to its citizens intending to come to Australia after the fatal stabbing in Melbourne of a 21-year-old Indian student. Other Indian students held protests, claiming attacks on them were motivated by racism and were not being addressed by the Australian government. Indian students are the second largest group of international students studying at a tertiary level in Australia. Their enrolments dropped by 30% in 2011 and by another 26% in 2012.

In 2005 several days of racially motivated mob riots were whipped up in the Sydney beachside suburb of Cronulla and neighbouring communities by reports of an attack on volunteer lifesavers by Middle Eastern men.

In May a British woman was sentenced to 21 weeks in jail for racially abusing passengers on the tube in London. Jacqueline Woodhouse, 42, from Romford in Essex, launched her abusive verbal attack on several passengers on the Central Line. A seven-minute video of the tirade has been watched by more than 200,000 people on YouTube. Among her remarks, Woodhouse asked passengers around her: "Where do you come from? All over the world, fucking jokers. Fucking country's a fucking joke.

"I would like to know if any of you are illegal? I am sure 30% of you are. Fucking jokers taking the fucking piss."

The judge said Woodhouse would spend half of her sentence behind bars and was banned for five years from using the London underground and Docklands Light Railway network while drunk.


Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/no ... -australia


It seems kind of incidents happen every so often in Australia and it often leads to a period of reflection and social commentary. So the question is, is Australia at heart a 'racist' country?
#14112676
AVT wrote:It seems kind of incidents happen every so often in Australia and it often leads to a period of reflection and social commentary. So the question is, is Australia at heart a 'racist' country?


Absolutely not. Isolated incident. 2 weeks ago a young woman was murdered in Point Cook. Does that mean Australia at heart is a country of murderers?

Sociopaths likely off their faces on drugs target vulnerable people regardless of race colour or creed.
#14112697
No doubt this has a lot more shock value because the victim was white - and pretty too.

Isolated incident.

based on what?

The racists in this case were just unlucky enough to get caught on camera. There's no telling how prevalent this is throughout Australia.

Also, it wasn't just one drunk guy. He was egged on by at least one other guy, plus another woman.

Another thing too, this is also an issue of misogyny.
#14113125
GandalfTheGrey wrote:No doubt this has a lot more shock value because the victim was white - and pretty too.


No doubt.

Swagman wrote:Isolated incident.


GandalfTheGrey wrote:based on what?


Firstly, personal experience. I live in a multi-cultural area and travel on buses and trains regularly. I've seen plenty of fights, arguments, tough guys trying to intimidate etc. Basically if you are on your own, you can be a target.

Also if this was endemic to the population at large GTG it would be in the papers and on You-tube every day as well don't you think?

Bully boys tactics are to prey on weaker people and that means anyone will be their victim regardless of race.

Were these scumbags racists? Evidently, but that doesn't make Australia a 'racist' country. Every country has its racists and criminal sociopaths

GandalfTheGrey wrote: The racists in this case were just unlucky enough to get caught on camera. There's no telling how prevalent this is throughout Australia.


You can say the same thing about any type of crime caught on camera. Theft, rape, bashings, armed robberies etc all crimes that happen every day in every city around the world. If there was some bias towards race it would inevitably reveal itself in crime statistics.

GandalfTheGrey wrote:Also, it wasn't just one drunk guy. He was egged on by at least one other guy, plus another woman.

Another thing too, this is also an issue of misogyny.


So their girl friend was a misogynist too? :?:

The issue here is law and order, not racism or misogyny. I wouldn't be surprised if the R-soles involved didn't already have plenty of form. Some kind magistrate has more than likely smacked their wrists numerous times and let them out into the public.

If the cops arrived and tazered the hell out of these guys you'd have a whinge about that too. :|
#14113168
Firstly, personal experience. I live in a multi-cultural area and travel on buses and trains regularly. I've seen plenty of fights, arguments, tough guys trying to intimidate etc. Basically if you are on your own, you can be a target.


Well it probably varies from region to region. This attack was in Melbourne, which does tend to be feature prominently with these sorts of things.

Also if this was endemic to the population at large GTG it would be in the papers and on You-tube every day as well don't you think?


not at all. Studies on racism have shown that victims rarely speak out or report the attacks made against them. The only reason we heard about this particular attack was that a guy who fancies himself as a film producer recorded it and made quite a song and dance about it. If he hadn't been there, it would have gone unnoticed, and the Australian public would once again be blissfully unaware of yet another racist attack in the country. Its probable that the victim herself wouldn't have done anything about this.

What concerns me about this particular incident is how it drew in three completely different racists independently. If you take this bus as a small random sample of the Australian population - that there exists 3 such vicious racists in this small group is quite alarming.

You can say the same thing about any type of crime caught on camera. Theft, rape, bashings, armed robberies etc all crimes that happen every day in every city around the world.


Yes, and if racist attacks are as prevalent as theft and bashings, I think we would all agree it was rampant and a huge problem.

The problem though is racism is rarely this overt, and probably rarely even constitutes a crime. Like I said, most victims are reluctant to report their attacks, and often very few onlookers would even be aware when it happens. It doesn't mean that its a problem though, just like sexism and misogyny, its about intimidation and subtly making people's lives a misery.
#14113185
AVT wrote:It seems kind of incidents happen every so often in Australia and it often leads to a period of reflection and social commentary. So the question is, is Australia at heart a 'racist' country?



Is 'racism' the appropriate word? Can a white person be rasict to a white person? Perhaps xenophobic would be a better term?

Regardless, both racism and xenophobia are sub sets of the broader concept of prejudice. Umm, as is misandry and misogany. Certainly these people in Melbourne can corrently be described as bigots, as in those who express prejudice.

Is this a problem? That depends on our values. If it were so that we valued social capital, a factor of which is most people feeling a sense of belonging, then we might see this sort of thing as destructive to our civic community. We might avalue also the idea that treating our fellow human beings with heartless cruelty is immoral, evil even. Again such behavour lessens us should we hold such a worldview.

I suppose we could just say that Australians are a nasty bunch of people and everyone else just has to deal with it. What do you think?


Now, I see this sort of thing as 'boganism'. Such crude people are frightenly common in contempory Australia. Even more frightenly, they assert they are the real Australians, and their values define Australian culture. Yet I would estimate they would make up less than 10% of the population. They might account for somewhat more of the welfare dependant population however.

Is 'boganism' a problem? Should we accept 'boganism' as being definative of Australian culture? Or perhaps it is time to do something about it?
#14113207
As Foxdemon pointed out, this is xenophobia. "Speak English or die" is not racism :lol:
#14113222
that is true, but ultimately its bigotry that has the same origin. Hatred of the "other", fueled by some warped form of ethnocentrism, coupled with a rather vile strain of jingoistic nationalism.

Having said that, I should point out that the man on camera quick moved on from this woman to talk about how he hated blacks.

"speak English or I'll cut your tits off bitch" to "I hate blacks" in more or less the same sentence - sort of says something...
#14113232
Bounce wrote:As Foxdemon pointed out, this is xenophobia. "Speak English or die" is not racism :lol:


I read FD's comments as being about Australians being racist at heart and not specifically this incident.

GandalfTheGrey wrote: that is true, but ultimately its bigotry that has the same origin. Hatred of the "other", fueled by some warped form of ethnocentrism, coupled with a rather vile strain of jingoistic nationalism.


Yes as a New South Welshman I cop that sort of thing from Queenslanders at Origin time every year? :lol:

GandalfTheGrey wrote:Having said that, I should point out that the man on camera quick moved on from this woman to talk about how he hated blacks.

"speak English or I'll cut your tits off bitch" to "I hate blacks" in more or less the same sentence - sort of says something...


Well if you support the statement Australia is a racist country at heart you would have to conclude that this R-sole epitomises the average Australian. I don't.
#14113252
Swagman wrote:I read FD's comments as being about Australians being racist at heart and not specifically this incident.



If that is what you make of my comments, then you have misunderstood those comments.

Infact, I would say Australian society would be somewhat less racist than most places in the world. This is nothing to be proud of though. I say this as there have been those who puff out their chests with national pride when it is pointed out Australia is less racist than other places in the world. See, combating racism is not about national pride. Rather it is about fostering good will between people. If we only oppose racism for the purpose of national pride, then we would be cultivating a false morality. And we wouldn't want to be morally pretentious, now would we?

So, it cannot be said that Australians as a whole are racist at heart. I don't think that is true.


Swagman wrote:Well if you support the statement Australia is a racist country at heart you would have to conclude that this R-sole epitomises the average Australian. I don't.


What you have written hear is actually very close to my own view. These bogans, in my opinion, don't represent the average Australian. Yet they certainly think they do!



GandalfTheGrey wrote:"speak English or I'll cut your tits off bitch" to "I hate blacks" in more or less the same sentence - sort of says something...


That may be true but I think what we need to do is talk about what might be done about this sort of person.
#14113360
GandalfTheGrey wrote:that is true, but ultimately its bigotry that has the same origin. Hatred of the "other", fueled by some warped form of ethnocentrism, coupled with a rather vile strain of jingoistic nationalism.

Having said that, I should point out that the man on camera quick moved on from this woman to talk about how he hated blacks.

"speak English or I'll cut your tits off bitch" to "I hate blacks" in more or less the same sentence - sort of says something...


I don't think xenophobia and racism are necessarily of the same origin.

I'm going to follow the lead of the people above me. I don't think that these stories are indicative of a wider problem. You can't take one incident and extrapolate it to a nation of racists - you can find these situations in every country. The French are rather notorious for xenophobia anyway.

I also don't think she should have sung louder when the abuse started. It's not exactly a smart idea and people singing is irritable at the best of time, and doing so in French isn't going to make matters better.
#14113410
Bounce wrote:I don't think xenophobia and racism are necessarily of the same origin.

I'm going to follow the lead of the people above me. I don't think that these stories are indicative of a wider problem. You can't take one incident and extrapolate it to a nation of racists - you can find these situations in every country. The French are rather notorious for xenophobia anyway.

I also don't think she should have sung louder when the abuse started. It's not exactly a smart idea and people singing is irritable at the best of time, and doing so in French isn't going to make matters better.


If she was singing the French National Anthem and they started yelling at her, she may have instinctively sung louder as a response to the racism. Could have even been thinking of this:

[youtube]HM-E2H1ChJM[/youtube]
#14113414
Bounce wrote: I don't think that these stories are indicative of a wider problem. You can't take one incident and extrapolate it to a nation of racists - you can find these situations in every country.


Unfortunately, it is not "one incident" or even a few "stories". It happens all the time. It only seems "one incident" because it is caught on camera and is subsequently reported in mainstream media.

I agree that it is always misleading to characterise an entire nation and people. Ordinary Australians would go out of their way to be nice and courteous toward foreigners. But there are very nasty folks on the street who don't have a good life themselves and look for weaker individuals to unleash their anger. In most cases, they are only verbal insults, but sometimes they do turn violent.
#14113419
I suspect she was humming/singing La Marseille... Who knows why? Perhaps some Brisbane supporter was sitting near her humming their theme tune.... Point is she shouldn't have been criminally abused just for singing it, calling them crazy(which they all were), and then choosing to sing it louder(all three dickheads in the vid commit known criminal offences on camera).
#14113461
HoniSoit wrote:
Unfortunately, it is not "one incident" or even a few "stories". It happens all the time. It only seems "one incident" because it is caught on camera and is subsequently reported in mainstream media.

I agree that it is always misleading to characterise an entire nation and people. Ordinary Australians would go out of their way to be nice and courteous toward foreigners. But there are very nasty folks on the street who don't have a good life themselves and look for weaker individuals to unleash their anger. In most cases, they are only verbal insults, but sometimes they do turn violent.


I don't think that these situations can be used as evidence of the rest of Australia. Racism is always boiled down to an iconic situation that supposedly represents everyone. I haven't seen any evidence that shows this to be anything other than an isolated (if common) incident.
#14113464
Bounce wrote:I don't think that these situations can be used as evidence of the rest of Australia. Racism is always boiled down to an iconic situation that supposedly represents everyone. I haven't seen any evidence that shows this to be anything other than an isolated (if common) incident.


Sorry did I say this is used as evidence for the rest of Australia or representing everyone? I thought I said exactly the opposite.

I also don't fully understand what you mean by "an isolated (if common) incident". So is it common or isolated?

Or, have you actually been living in Australia for the last decade? And you live in Melbourne? :eh:
#14113469
Melbourne for twenty years.

The evidence part wasn't to contradict you, I was explaining my thoughts. (I also misread you).

It's isolated in that it has no broader context or representation, but common in a city of 4 million people that is endlessly defined by race. Such that, there are racist outbursts (not premeditated), but they are not condoned by the broader public.
#14113472
Bounce wrote:Such that, there are racist outbursts (not premeditated), but they are not condoned by the broader public.


I don't disagree with that. They are certainly not condoned by the public, but their behaviours tend to tacitly accepted on a daily basis (until it becomes too much and gets publicised), which I think is the problem. These nasty people remain a small minority and I am not too bothered by them. What is bothering is that the public pretends it is not really a problem and gives exactly the same arguments found in this thread.

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