[colliric]

Not surprised Roxon's gone, only a few days now till the Slipper saga returns to court, and she payed out Ashby.... Certainly the "right time" for her to go.

Chris Evans is a little more interesting, I guess he just plain wanted out...

Can they take Penny Wong with them as well?

[Swagman]

Not surprised Roxon's gone, only a few days now till the Slipper saga returns to court, and she payed out Ashby.... Certainly the "right time" for her to go

She also had that new anti-freedom of speech legislation on the table which was going to be as popular as a fart in an elevator.....

Can they take Penny Wong with them as well?

Maybe the electorate can do that job...

[colliric]

Also she apparently decided Harry "Breaker" Morant was guilty and any attempt to seek a pardon and apology from the British government was frivolous.

I can tell you that behind the scenes, and even after more than a century since his infamous court marshal, that has practically made her position untenable amoungst older male Labor supporters.

[pugsville]

you do know that he was almost certainly guilty? though of course he did what many others were doing, and it's fairly certain Kitchener had issued some sort of no prisoners orders (though O was only following orders might have worked then but it wouldnt have worked now). The Boer War was a dirty war when Morant was fighting it, he was both Guilty of the crimes he was hung for and a scapegoat for the British.

[GandalfTheGrey]

She also had that new anti-freedom of speech legislation on the table which was going to be as popular as a fart in an elevator.....

no it was already scrapped before she resigned. They cleverly masked that behind the election announcement.

[colliric]

you do know that he was almost certainly guilty? though of course he did what many others were doing, and it's fairly certain Kitchener had issued some sort of no prisoners orders (though O was only following orders might have worked then but it wouldnt have worked now). The Boer War was a dirty war when Morant was fighting it, he was both Guilty of the crimes he was hung for and a scapegoat for the British.

Doesn't matter to me, because the damn court marshal was rigged to get a certain result. Today that Court marshal's decision would be overturned on a miscarriage of justice. In fact, had they allowed him the usual rights even back then, it's likely he would have at least been allowed to put his defense properly and have the proper channels open for him.

On principal, he should be pardoned and the British Government apologise for rigging the court that decided his guilt.

It's not up to Nicola Roxon to decide he was guilty so there should be no pardon and no apology sought. If they can apologize for the Stolen Generation, they can certainly seek a similar apology from the British, they might not have done it themselves but they can apologise on behalf of their ancestors just like Rudd did.

Heck if the Victorian Government can hand over Ned Kelley for his proper Catholic burial after 130 years, getting an apology for Breaker shouldn't be this difficult.

[GandalfTheGrey]

I don't give a hoot about this ridiculous campaign for a pardon - over 100 years after the event, and I don't know why anyone else would either. Even apart from that, I think Roxon made the right call, where she explained:

''It would not be appropriate for the Australian government to advocate for a pardon … when there is no dispute that Mssrs Morant, Handcock and Witton actually committed the killings of unarmed Boer prisoners and others,'' she wrote in a letter to Commander Unkles yesterday.

''I consider that seeking a pardon for these men could be rightly perceived as 'glossing over' very grave criminal acts.''

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/roxon-re ... z2K1nsDVtX

Also, I'm sceptical that colliric has enough facts on hand to be so sure about this misscarriage of justice. From the wiki article:

The validity of the court-martial remains the pivotal issue in the Morant case, but the disappearance (or suppression) of the original trial records has prevented a full investigation of this matter for over a century. In their absence, historians have been forced to rely primarily on Witton's memoir, which is very detailed, but must necessarily be considered as a biased view of the case since Witton himself was one of those on trial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_mart ... ker_Morant

[colliric]

I don't give a hoot about this ridiculous campaign for a pardon - over 100 years after the event, and I don't know why anyone else would either.

Lucky you didn't oversee the Kelly family's campaign to give Ned his final request after 130 years... Heck and he shot a Copper in the back. Not only that, but the Catholic Church supported this campaign, and approved the "Requiem Mass for the repose of the soul of Edward Kelly". As the Priest said, it's not about celebrating the life of a murderer, but allowing the decendants to bury properly a man they felt very close to(by blood and by his place as a figure of Victorian history), praying for his soul, burying him in the old family plot, and closing an important chapter of Australian history.

The least they could do for the Morant family(They're behind this campaign) is get the British Government to apologize for the injustice of a rigged trial, regardless of weather or not he was guilty and regardless of weather or not they specifically rigged it(Use Rudd as an example... Obviously he didn't do the Stolen Generation personally). The same closure that was afforded the Kelly family is certainly something the families of those three men more than deserve. Until the apology is given, this sorry injustice of the Boar War will remain open.

Nicola Roxon was frankly, out of her league.

[GandalfTheGrey]

1. Ned Kelly didn't have his conviction overturned, which is what you are asking for Morant. Big difference.
2. I maintain my sceptisism that you can cite any substantial evidence that the trial was "rigged" such that would warrant such an apology.

Nicola Roxon was frankly, out of her league.

Roxon rightly judged this to be an irrelevance, a waste of taxpayers money, and most importantly, setting a dangerous precedent that would correctly be seen as pardoning war crimes.

Why don't we judge Roxon by the relevant matters that actually affect contemporary Australian society?

[colliric]

Ok, how about how she personally saw to it that James Ashby was payed out in his suit against the Government, then joined her colleges post-judgement in the Slipper case in criticizing him and Brough?

If she thought the case had no merit and had no chance, why did she see to it the Government pay out?

[GandalfTheGrey]

Good - much better example. And yes, I agree it was a shame that the government decided to pay out that pathological liar and traitor. Though I am somewhat consoled with the thought that the snivelling little weasel will be paying that 50k many times back both for Slipper's legal cost, plus the daily fee that bafoon of a lawyer of his charged him.

As for the government's decision, I guess they had a judgment call to make - of course they knew they were in the right, but whether it was worth dragging it through the courts at far more cost to the taxpayer to prove their case, or just sucking it up and settling for that one-off payment and be done with it. I suspect they made the right call - though its a shame it provided some unjust legitimacy to Ashby's lies.