[colliric]

... and the "anything except for what Howard did" farce continues.

66 people were on the boat this time(ABC numbers)

http://www.smh.com.au/wa-news/asylum-se ... 2hj0s.html

[GandalfTheGrey]

... and the "anything except for what Howard did" farce continues.

1. Whats this got to do with labor vs liberal border protection policies? Has labor reduced the resources available to the navy to patrol our shores?
2. Tony Abbott's catchphrase used to be "all you have to do is pick up the phone to Nauru" - and everything will be fine. Gillard picked up the phone to Nauru, reopened the detention centre (with extra punitive measures that Howard never had), and lo! the boats kept coming. So whats this nonsense about "anything except for what Howard did?" Gillard and Howard's policies are almost identical - with the only difference being Gillard's is much harsher.

[colliric]

1. Whats this got to do with labor vs liberal border protection policies? Has labor reduced the resources available to the navy to patrol our shores?
2. Tony Abbott's catchphrase used to be "all you have to do is pick up the phone to Nauru" - and everything will be fine. Gillard picked up the phone to Nauru, reopened the detention centre (with extra punitive measures that Howard never had), and lo! the boats kept coming. So whats this nonsense about "anything except for what Howard did?" Gillard and Howard's policies are almost identical - with the only difference being Gillard's is much harsher.

Not when they get here..... They won't get turned back under Gillard's policy. Hence the boats are indeed still coming(knowing that if they run the gauntlet, they'll get rewarded for it by being allowed to stay.... kindof like a bad video game).

And no temporary protection Visas.

[GandalfTheGrey]

Not when they get here..... They won't get turned back under Gillard's policy.

Rubbish. Something like 60% of Sri Lankan asylum seekers have been turned back under Gillard.

[colliric]

Rubbish. Something like 60% of Sri Lankan asylum seekers have been turned back under Gillard.

Should be alot more than that.

[Goldberk]

Should be alot more than that.

Why, they may be genuine refugees?

[GandalfTheGrey]

The whole motive behind this thread is ridiculous - since they were headed for New Zealand.

This has naught to do with Australian immigration policy - col you should be frothing at the mouth about whatever New Zealand has done to attract these people.

[colliric]

The whole motive behind this thread is ridiculous - since they were headed for New Zealand.

This has naught to do with Australian immigration policy - col you should be frothing at the mouth about whatever New Zealand has done to attract these people.

You really believe they were headed for NZ? That sign looks like it was drawn up at the last second. Why sail right into Geraldton Harbour? Why not just sail right around Australia and right for NZ?

Looking for Petrol? I find that hard to believe. Surely they knew a petrol stop was going to, under Gillard's policy, result in them being taken on land and the boat confiscated?

The point is THEY ARRIVED HERE and Gillard's "no turning boats back once they're here" policy means they're going to stay.

Likely that NZ sign was just a ruse looking for a little sympathy, as if they thought(as a backup plan should they not be taken on land here) we'd turn them out(rather than back) and give them the fuel so they could get "where they want to go"(as opposed to forcing them back the same way they came).

[colliric]

Oh and right at this moment on ABC24 the Immigration Minister is contradicting you Gandalf.

He's trying to send this message to Asylum Seekers:
"You will not be processed here on the mainland, you will be processed offshore(at Christmas Island)."

[pugsville]

It's pretty much impossible to "turn the boats around" what are really going to do to implement this? Tow then back to were they came from? It's a policy that will simply not work. The countries where they came from will likely not co-operate, deaths will happen. The phrase "turn the boats around" is simply empty rhetoric. Tell people what they want to believe.

In reality the boat arrivals are almost totally regulated by external events, the policies implemented by any Australian government will NOT STOP the boats. The whole Howard Idea (and currently mostly implemented by the Labour Government, in real terms the differences in Howard and the Labour Governments is pretty slight) that treating these people badly will deter than was from the start a simple propaganda exercise like the tampa. In reality Australia would have to be very extreme to treat these people worse than the external world. Some are very desperate, Some very determined to make a better economic life and willing to take risks and put up with a lot of hardship to get the chance. At best it's a very marginally effective policy. Is Australia a perceived as a better place to live in the nearby region by many people with very low standards of living and very poor prospects, many of whom are displaced from their homelands and are facing making their way in another country starting anew away? While that question is answered yes only a truly ruthless draconian measures would "stop the boats".

It's a difficult, emotive issue which is pretty much insolvable , one which the coalition has successfully politicised (with their many allies in the media) which has reduced the debate to cheap slogans that have no bearing what so ever with reality. Of course Labours ham fisted, implementation of Howard-lite policies in a shoddy band aid manner has just working the attack dogs into frenzy.

The Whole Idea that the government can excise regions and limit the application of Australian law in Australian territory is a pretty slick piece of sophistry, that immoral lawyers might respect but is morally bankrupt action that should have been struck down by the courts the moment it was tried. It was always a slight of hand trick that did not address the core problem.

The whole thing, Labour, the liberals, the Media, the Courts, the Public just reflects badly on our society,

[GandalfTheGrey]

You really believe they were headed for NZ?

why not? I've already told you that more than half of all arrivals from Sri Lanka in the last couple of years have been sent back. In light of this, why wouldn't they be deterred enough to try and bypass Australia altogether?

Or even if it was a ploy to get to the mainland so they could get processed on the mainland - well that didn't work either since they are about to be flown off to Christmas Island.

Seems all you are demanding of the government is being implemented, and it is having the desired effect. Either they were deterred enough to try and bypass Australia, or took the extraordinary measure of sailing well south in order to make the mainland directly - presumably because they were deterred by the prospect of offshore processing. Either way they are being thwarted by the government's asylum policies.

The only possible criticism you can lay at the government is the fact that border patrol missed them. Is this a valid criticism though? Is there evidence that labor have been negligent in the allocation of resources for border security - such that missing this boat was their fault? Seems like an unlikely charge - given that this is the first boat to reach the mainland in 5 years - and under Howard 16 boats reached the mainland.

In reality the boat arrivals are almost totally regulated by external events

I disagree. Howard's policies did have a dramatic effect on boats - firstly TPVs caused boat arrivals to skyrocket, and the reasons are well known: men who arrived thinking they could bring their families over once they were given asylum (as was their right prior to TPVs), suddenly did not have this right - despite them being acknowledged as genuine refugees. So in sheer desperation, the women and children hopped on to boats and made their own way over. Thus a massive influx of boats. Secondly, Howard's desperate knee jerk reaction to this unprecedented spike in arrivals in the wake of the 2001 election, led to the brutal Operation Relex. This is when the navy was ordered to threaten boats and endanger lives - firing live shots across the bows, standing back while boats sink, and of course towing them back. This is the only action by Howard that had an effect on stopping the boats - not the combination of TPVs + Nauru processing (making up the pacific solution). The point about Relex too, is that it would never be allowed to be implemented again - the navy would likely go into open revolt (as they nearly did during Relex), and Indonesia have made it plain that they will never accept returned boats.

[Swagman]

We need a few batsmen in the cricket squad...