[anarchist23]

In 2008 Kevin Rudd apologized to the Indigenous Australians for the mistreatment suffered by them.
The apology made no reference of compensation for the Aboriginal people as a whole or individual Aborigines.
Does their mistreatment warrant compensation?
See "Stolen Generations".....Wikipedia.

[Stingrei]

It does warrant compensation of some sort but what form that should take is difficult to agree on.
Certainly a massive payout to each individual wont buy back a past that could have been and may not even improve the lives of those who were taken.
An apology from the PM has a lot of symbolic value but at the end of the day words are words.
So it's all down to the details of what that compensation entails as far as I'm concerned.

Certainly the judiciary does allow for compensation on a case by case basis but suing the government is not easy given that (in this case) having a successful case involves proving that the government agency in question was acting illegally under Australian law at the time.
In many cases the actions of those agency's were "legal" under state & federal law so it is a cloudy issue for the courts to deal with.

Morally it's obvious. Legally?...not so.

[Dagoth Ur]

How would compensation hurt people?

[Solastalgia]

Apologies and piecemeal compensation is not going to cut it. The Australian aborigines need massive government investment in their communities to bring them out of poverty. They're utterly ignored, and throwing a small stack of cash at their tribal governments (who will likely embezzle it) is not going to solve anything. The Australian government needs to start an initiative that invests in eradicating poverty and poor living conditions in aboriginal communities.

Everyone should watch John Pilger's latest documentary Utopia. http://thoughtmaybe.com/utopia/

[Political Interest]

They should do something to try and revive the Aboriginal Australian language, make it the official language alongside English as was done in New Zealand with Maori.

[Pants-of-dog]

They should do something to try and revive the Aboriginal Australian language, make it the official language alongside English as was done in New Zealand with Maori.

This.

Also, consultation with the Aborigines would have to be the first step.

[Solastalgia]

There is no one Australian aboriginal language - there are many. Namely: Arrernte, Kala Lagaw Ya, Tiwi, Walmajarri, Warlpiri, and the Western Desert language. There used to be around 400 different aboriginal languages in Australia, but almost all of them have been lost.

While the symbolic compensation of making aboriginal languages "official" is nice and all; it really doesn't change much. The main priority needs to be eradicating poverty and reforming the Australian criminal justice system that preys on aboriginals. Aboriginal communities (as well as most indigenous communities around the world) are grossly neglected and immensely impoverished. This needs to be changed before anyone from the colonizer class can pat themselves on the back for symbolically recognizing aboriginal peoples and/or their languages.

[foxdemon]

This.

Also, consultation with the Aborigines would have to be the first step.

Certainly. There ought be more Kurri in the parliaments. Perhaps a Kurri PM too? Here'sone possible candidate.

[Swagman]

If the mistreatnment was criminal and can be proven beyond resonable doubt then any individual should be able to sue for compensation regardless of indigenousness.

[Swagman]

Certainly. There ought be more Kurri in the parliaments. Perhaps a Kurri PM too? Here'sone possible candidate.

So are you advocating the installation of politicians based upon their race as opposed to being democratically elected?

[Solastalgia]

So are you advocating the installation of politicians based upon their race as opposed to being democratically elected?

Indigenous people throughout the world are notoriously misrepresented in politics, aside from Bolivia (with Evo Morales). All that person was saying, is that there needs to be more aboriginal representation in the Australian government. Obviously by democratic elections, though, of course. It just would be nice if there was more representation for indigenous people in national politics.

[Ahovking]

NO!, they are no longer victims, If we continue to treat them as victims, then how will they ever move on from the past.. They are born into a democrat nation and enjoy the full rights of any other citizen.

Under my eyes they are Australia's full blooded Australians and should be treated as such.

Apologies and piecemeal compensation is not going to cut it. The Australian aborigines need massive government investment in their communities to bring them out of poverty. They're utterly ignored, and throwing a small stack of cash at their tribal governments (who will likely embezzle it) is not going to solve anything. The Australian government needs to start an initiative that invests in eradicating poverty and poor living conditions in aboriginal communities.

Everyone should watch John Pilger's latest documentary Utopia. http://thoughtmaybe.com/utopia/

I agree throwing stack of cash at their tribal governments is not going to solve anything.

I would invest in these small towns opening up business and opportunities, turning these isolated areas into fully developed industrial uban areas, where they can not only get a job and a great education and be apart of the Australian community.

There is no one Australian aboriginal language - there are many. Namely: Arrernte, Kala Lagaw Ya, Tiwi, Walmajarri, Warlpiri, and the Western Desert language. There used to be around 400 different aboriginal languages in Australia, but almost all of them have been lost.

While the symbolic compensation of making aboriginal languages "official" is nice and all; it really doesn't change much. The main priority needs to be eradicating poverty and reforming the Australian criminal justice system that preys on aboriginals. Aboriginal communities (as well as most indigenous communities around the world) are grossly neglected and immensely impoverished. This needs to be changed before anyone from the colonizer class can pat themselves on the back for symbolically recognizing aboriginal peoples and/or their languages.

Our criminal justice system doesn't preys on aboriginals. Aboriginals themselves often have no skills and drop out of school (thats even if they went to school in the first place) and then to fail to corporate themselves in our world. Like the black youth in america they are pron to crimes and violence, thats failing here is our education system which has a limited reach in the outback.

How can they hold up a job if they never went to school or dropped out in year 8? criminal justice system works fine, dont blame the system, blame our failure to help them corporate themselves in our world.

[Ahovking]

Indigenous people throughout the world are notoriously misrepresented in politics, aside from Bolivia (with Evo Morales). All that person was saying, is that there needs to be more aboriginal representation in the Australian government. Obviously by democratic elections, though, of course. It just would be nice if there was more representation for indigenous people in national politics.

So were woman until............they rised up, they ignoring the abuse they received, if woman can do it so can Aboriginals, nothing is stopping them, poor education and society rejection didn't stop woman, and it wont stop Aboriginals, indeed you can already see Aboriginals rising in other areas like sports, and eventually politics.

Installation of politicians based upon their race is highly undemocratic and you risk having people who have little life experience and who may hold extremest ideals being in control of an incredibly complex system.

[Solastalgia]

I would invest in these small towns opening up business and opportunities, turning these isolated areas into fully developed industrial uban areas, where they can not only get a job and a great education and be apart of the Australian community.

You're putting the cart before the horse here. The priority is getting basic necessities to these people. Then you can start talking about outside corporations turning these small towns into industrial business thriving cities. Most of the time when that kind of development happens, it tends to hurt and not help the indigenous population (despite the claims of the developers). Also, a lot of aborigines would be opposed to their communities being turned into an industrial city center, as their culture and religion are very much connected to their natural environment.

By the way, a big city is not a necessity for job creation and good education.

Our criminal justice system doesn't preys on aboriginals. Aboriginals themselves often have no skills and drop out of school (thats even if they went to school in the first place) and then to fail to corporate themselves in our world. Like the black youth in america they are pron to crimes and violence, thats failing here is our education system which has a limited reach in the outback.

How can they hold up a job if they never went to school or dropped out in year 8? criminal justice system works fine, dont blame the system, blame our failure to help them corporate themselves in our world.

That's not what the United Nation's Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination says. http://www.un.org/documents/ga/docs/55/a5518.pdf

Byron Davis (Director Oorala Aboriginal Centre) presented a 17 page paper entitled, "THE INAPPROPRIATENESS OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM – INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIAN CRIMINOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVE" at the 3rd National Outlook Symposium on Crime in Australia, specifically on this topic. I recommend reading: http://aic.gov.au/media_library/confere ... /davis.pdf

If you don't want to read all of that, then I recommend reading this article here: http://indymedia.org.au/2011/10/26/the- ... peoples-mo

"We also need to understand and review the criminal justice system in terms of the possibility that it is discriminatory – sentences are longer for Aboriginal peoples and the opportunity for early parole is less likely for Aboriginal peoples. In terms of arrest rates in comparison to ‘caution’ rates, seven in ten non-Aboriginal juvenile offenders will receive a caution, however only three in ten Aboriginal juvenile offenders will receive a caution. If this is not discrimination then what is?

The United Nations’ mechanisms, the UN Periodic Review and the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination have slammed Australia's maltreatment of Aboriginal peoples, and they have regularly forewarned a need for the Australian government to remedy these tragic and inexcusable wrongs."

Australian aboriginal incarceration rates are five times that of apartheid South Africa. http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/07/02/we- ... th-africa/

Your approach blaming aboriginals for not having skills or the will to go to school, is also racist, by the way. I understand you're an Australian nationalist, so I'm guessing that you toe the line on the conservative view point that it's the aboriginals fault for this.

[Solastalgia]

So were woman until............they rised up, they ignoring the abuse they received, if woman can do it so can Aboriginals, nothing is stopping them, poor education and society rejection didn't stop woman, and it wont stop Aboriginals, indeed you can already see Aboriginals rising in other areas like sports, and eventually politics.

Installation of politicians based upon their race is highly undemocratic and you risk having people who have little life experience and who may hold extremest ideals being in control of an incredibly complex system.

Nobody was saying that aboriginal peoples need to be installed undemocratically into the australian government. You're misinterpreting things here.

All we were saying earlier, is that indigenous peoples are notoriously underrepresented (if at all) in governments, and that it would be nice to see greater representation (especially since these governments have a history of brutally oppressing these people). This isn't to say that anyone (aboriginal or not) should be undemocratically placed into power. You're stretching things.

Oh and by the way, aboriginal peoples are in politics, already. Your first paragraph makes it sound like an aboriginal person has never gotten into politics yet.

[Solastalgia]

I also want to add to this thread (getting back to the OP), that Kevin Rudd actually said, after the formal apology, "We will not, under any circumstances, be establishing any compensation arrangements or any compensation fund. Absolutely blunt on that."

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/ ... 35355.html

[foxdemon]

So are you advocating the installation of politicians based upon their race as opposed to being democratically elected?

Sure, seems like a great idea. Democracy is quite overrated. A competent autocracy is vastly supieror, espeically compared with the modern media demogogue plus plutocratic ideology sort of democratic farce that many hold up as the ideal solution to the question of quality governance.

Someone with the values and ideas of Noel Pearson who make a fine national leader fot this country. He also happens to be Kurri, so we can achieve histroical legitmacy as well.


Under our current constitution, assuming we stick with liberal democrazy for the time being, Mr Pearson could be appointed Governor General, with similar Kurri high achievers holding state level governor posts. No need for elections there. Those positions are appointed. There are alos prestigious diplomactic posts that they could fill.

Why not start the convention of Kurri holding those head of state positions? Why shouldn't the leaders of the orginal people of this land participate at teh highest levels in government?

Nobody was saying that aboriginal peoples need to be installed undemocratically into the australian government. You're misinterpreting things here.

Well, actually......

[Swagman]

Why not start the convention of Kurri holding those head of state positions? Why shouldn't the leaders of the orginal people of this land participate at teh highest levels in government?

What's preventing them?

[foxdemon]

What's preventing them?

Given the oligarchy that rules this country chooses who gets appointed to the positions I mentioned, might it possibly be the case it is that white, liberal establishment whom chooses what to do or not to do? Hmm?

I guess you are making a good point though. The will does not exist amongst the white elite for anything more that symbolism intended to appease the opinon toward them of their peers overseas. Do you think that is right?

[Godstud]

No. I am with Avokhing on this one.