[foxdemon]

Much descussion about the inhumanity of Australia's current immigration policy centers on 'illegal immigrants', especially those arrivng by boat. I want this thread to move the debate on Pofo past the boat people and onto other people whose lives are unfairly effected by the goverment's lack of compasion.

What is the human experience of the government's immigration policy? Here are two recent stories:

The fate of a four-year-old Brisbane girl remains unclear as her South Korean mother is being forced to leave the country.

Eunsil Park has lived in Brisbane for eight years and had a child with her former Australian partner in 2009.

Her daughter Ari Illingworth, is an Australian citizen.

When Ms Park's relationship broke down, her fiancee visa ended.

She applied for permanent residency but her request has been denied by Immigration Minister Scott Morrison.

"I couldn't believe it, what they had decided," Ms Park said.

A letter from the Immigration Minister to Ms Park states it would not be in the public interest to intervene and grant her residency.

A Vietnamese man awaiting medical treatment after being bashed by Melbourne neo-Nazis is in limbo after being banned from Australia for three years.

In 2012, Minh Duong was punched and kicked by two men 70 times, stabbed, and had a brick smashed over his head with such force that the brick broke in two.

His front teeth were smashed out in the racial attack and he is still awaiting $25,000 worth of dental treatment.

Last week Mr Duong was forced to leave the country after immigration officials at Tullamarine airport flagged that his student visa had expired in March last year.

He disputes that, claiming to have written confirmation from the Immigration Department that his visa did not expire until March 2014.

But despite his claims, Mr Duong was forced to leave the country as an "unlawful non-citizen" and is now residing in Ho Chi Minh.

He has also been told by the Immigration Department that he is not allowed to return for three years.

A petition with 67,000 signatures demanding that Mr Duong be allowed back into Australia to receive medical treatment and graduate from university was delivered to Immigration Minister Scott Morrison on Thursday.

However, in a statement to 7.30, Mr Morrison's office maintained that Mr Duong departed Australia as an unlawful non-citizen since his last student visa had expired.

In the second case the petition and media incredulity forced the government to back down. Mr Mihn Duong was allowed to reapply and got his visit. It is amazing what is possible when the government decides to allow it.


So why not let the Korean lady and her daughter (who holds AU citizenship) residence in Australia also? Why does Morrison claim it isn't in thepublic interest not to intervene?


The government sure is doing a good job establishing a reputation of petty cruelity for the nation. Is the current immigration policy really necassary? Why should it be so draconian?

[Swagman]

The reason is simple. How can one justify bending the law for one person and not another. A precedent gets set and then the law becomes unenforceable.

[foxdemon]

Well you konw, if a law sucks then maybe it's being unenforcable is a good thing. Any reasonable person can clearly see there is no sense in deporting a mother and child just to follow some draconian and ill conceived legislation.

[Rejn]

She no longer satisfied the rules for the spousal visa, so now she has to leave. If she has custody of the child, take her, otherwise leave her with her dad. I don't see the issue here.

[anarchist23]

Factor in the endemic racism in Australia and this is the outcome.The usual apologists for racism are posting on this thread.

[Rejn]

If she was British, I would have said the same thing. Though if she was a Kiwi, I wouldn't because we have a special visa agreement with them.

[anarchist23]

Politicians have to look tough on immigration.They pander to the racist prejudices of the electorate and probably like the media cover of foxdems examples. I feel sorry for the families who have been affected and the lack of support for the underdog.

[layman]

Dont go where you are not wanted.

[foxdemon]

She no longer satisfied the rules for the spousal visa, so now she has to leave. If she has custody of the child, take her, otherwise leave her with her dad. I don't see the issue here.

Then let me spell out the issue here, since you can't see it. Those rules disrupt the lives of people, causing dislocation of families and all for no good reason. This is inhumane.

Is is really OK that the young girl will now be sent out of the country and her grandparents can't visit her easily? What purpose do rules that expell a resident who has lived here for 8 years, born a child with citizenship, and who has been a peaceful member of the community?

[anarchist23]

Australian immigration rules penalize the poor.If you are a westerner you can come and go and work the system.People with limited funds haven't that privilege.

[Rejn]

Then let me spell out the issue here, since you can't see it. Those rules disrupt the lives of people, causing dislocation of families and all for no good reason. This is inhumane.

Prison disrupts the lives of people and causes dislocation of families as a part of upholding the rule of law. The same applies here. The law was broken, which in my mind does not fall under "no good reason".

Is is really OK that the young girl will now be sent out of the country and her grandparents can't visit her easily? What purpose do rules that expell a resident who has lived here for 8 years, born a child with citizenship, and who has been a peaceful member of the community?

Visiting grandparents is not a necessity, but the other points are okay. I'll retract what I said earlier - I think she should be able to stay if she wants. Mummy still ought to go though.

Australian immigration rules penalize the poor.If you are a westerner you can come and go and work the system.People with limited funds haven't that privilege.

Nearly all of my relatives came to Australia with no money.

[foxdemon]

Prison disrupts the lives of people and causes dislocation of families as a part of upholding the rule of law. The same applies here. The law was broken, which in my mind does not fall under "no good reason".

A false diacotomy. The lady in question is not a criminal. The visa rules are simply inadequite to adress real life ciorcumstances. Those rules were made up to suit a buearucracy, not mothers and their young daugthers. That is a point you seem to ignore. There is no reasonable purpose to the law which has disrupted her life and others connected to her. Furthermore it is lacking in compassion. This is bad legislation.


If you disagree, then please present an arguement to support the draconian immigrations laws as they have stood since Howard's term in office.

Visiting grandparents is not a necessity, but the other points are okay. I'll retract what I said earlier - I think she should be able to stay if she wants. Mummy still ought to go though.

I am surprised you are unable to see how seperating a mother and young child is inhumane.

Nearly all of my relatives came to Australia with no money.

Is this a justification for your lack compassion for contempory immigrants?

[Rejn]

A false dichotomy. The lady in question is not a criminal.

The lady is a criminal as she overstayed her visa.

The visa rules are simply inadequate to address real life circumstances. Those rules were made up to suit a bureaucracy, not mothers and their young daughters. That is a point you seem to ignore.

What sort of benefit would there be to Australians to allow people like her (who disrespect our rules) to stay here?

There is no reasonable purpose to the law which has disrupted her life and others connected to her.

The purpose is to uphold the rule of law. See below:

The reason is simple. How can one justify bending the law for one person and not another. A precedent gets set and then the law becomes unenforceable.

Furthermore it is lacking in compassion.

Compassion for criminals.

This is bad legislation.

It is bad legislation because beguiling one of our men should not be a free pass to a visa.

If you disagree, then please present an argument to support the draconian immigration laws as they have stood since Howard's term in office.

Howard's government was very pro-immigration. Also, you need to be specific about which law as I don't support all or even the majority of Howard's positions.

I am surprised you are unable to see how separating a mother and young child is inhumane.

We do it all the time with irresponsible parents, of which she is an example.

Is this a justification for your lack of compassion for contempory immigrants?

This is a response to anarchist23 saying that immigration rules penalise the poor etc.

[layman]

Australian immigration rules penalize the poor.If you are a westerner you can come and go and work the system.People with limited funds haven't that privilege.

So fucking what?

Who wants poor peasant immigrants. It lowers the overall quality of the human capital in your country. Poor people are on average less educated and productive.

Only a retarded immigration policy would favor all applicants equally.

[anarchist23]

Layman. Usually immigrants from the developing countries are educated but poor.To say they are not productive is not true and the post is full of sweeping generalizations.I can smell a whiff of racism which is unlike you.

[anarchist23]

Rejn."Nearly all my relatives came to Australia with no money." I suppose your relatives are white?? Did they move to Australia when the White Australia Policy was in force?? Are you a White supremacist??

[GandalfTheGrey]

It must be nice living in Rejn's completely detached black and white universe.

[foxdemon]

Politicians have to look tough on immigration.They pander to the racist prejudices of the electorate and probably like the media cover of foxdems examples. I feel sorry for the families who have been affected and the lack of support for the underdog.

I should have replied to this post earlier. I think there is more too it. Have you watched the series 'Yes Minister"? Real life is very close to the circumstances portraited on that program (my father lobbies, so I get to hear all about it).

So it isn't just politicians. It is mainly the top level public servants, in this case those running the department of immigration, who are in control of policy and direct politics to achieve their agenda. So what is the agenda they are pursuing that results in such inhumane outcomes as in the example of the unfortunate Korean woman and her relatives?


MONEY!


I suspect it is all about money. Check out the various visas listed on the department website. Some of them cost a small fortune. I also suspect that the strong opposition to asylkum seekers is realted, in that branding them illegal (implying they are criminal) justifies to the public the practice of throwing them in detention camps. The threat of detention in those camps serves to terrify other imigrants and enforces comliance with laws aimed to charge extortion level fees for visas.


I believe the higher levels of the public service have become dominated by bean counted neo liberal 'scroats' who use their power to substitute taxation on the rich with revenue raising tactics such as over pricing visas, but also activity in other areas (eg: speeding fines as the system is currently conducted).


It saddens me that innocent people such as this Korean woman and her child get caught up in the schemes of a inhumane and ruthless elite. It saddens me even more when so many Australians swollow the media propaganda and support what that neo liberal elite are doing.


OK, so let me finish by restating the term 'inhumane' by using the term 'cruel' instead. The immigration policies, as they currently stand, result in outcomes that are cruel. Those policies don't serve the public interest, they only serve to reinforce the world order which suits the interests of a greedy elite.

[anarchist23]

GDG.Most Australians live in "detached" bungalows in the suburbs.

[anarchist23]

Foxdemon.If I lived in Australia I would be embarrassed by Australia's behaviour.Australia had a good reputation abroad which is ruined- Australians are famous for their support of the underdog.