[Igor Antunov]

It was pointed out on Triple J yesterday that the school chaplaincy program gets about 10-20 times more money than actual courses or student disability programs.

Schools will lose the option of appointing secular social workers under the national school chaplaincy program, for which the Abbott government has found an extra $245m in budget funding.

While flagging big cuts to future school spending growth, the Coalition's first budget earmarks the funding over five years to continue the chaplaincy scheme originally put into place by John Howard.

But the education minister, Christopher Pyne, confirmed he would axe an option put in place by the Labor government for schools to opt for non-religious student welfare worker as an alternative to a chaplain providing “pastoral care”.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/m ... at-schools

At times like this, all you can do is laugh.

[Dagoth Ur]

Jesus Australia is fucking awful. It's like your whole country is a carbon copy of the American South in terms of social elevation.

[Rejn]

It's important to recognise that Australian society is decidedly non-religious. I still remember the shock I felt in primary school when the teacher asked how many of us went to church every week, and it was only me and one of my friends (out of 30 students).

Chaplains in schools, hospitals, volunteering services and the military are trained to deal with people who are non-religious or are from another religious background. They are forbidden from pushing religion on people and are only there to provide support.

I'm not a huge fan of the chaplaincy program, but there's a world of difference between Australia and the American South.

[Bounce]

As they're there to teach the Christian faith they are pushing the religion.

It's pointless and unnecessary. I'd love to see the reaction if Muslim's came into schools. Even if they were "forbidden from pushing religion on people".

Australia used to be a progressive country. Now

[Potemkin]

Australia used to be a progressive country.

It did? When did this happen?

[mikema63]

You have chaplains in your schools?

The first amendment is and will always be my favorite.

[Bounce]

It did? When did this happen?

Secret Ballot

Universal Suffrage

8 Hour Day

The 8 hour day is the most important. Incidentally, we have a monument for it at uni but we don't get the national labour day holiday off.

[Rejn]

As they're there to teach the Christian faith they are pushing the religion.

They're not there to teach the Christian faith. They're only there to provide support to students who ask for it.

3.1.2.
What don’t school chaplains/student welfare workers do?

When delivering services under the programme, school chaplains and student welfare workers must adhere to theprogramme guidelines and the Code of Conduct (Attachment A).
As outlined in Section 3.1, religious schools are exempt from any additional consent requirements for the provision of religious services/rites and faith discussions. Services provided during programme funded hours must not include:

• providing religious education in their schools. The decision on whether non programme funded religious education is delivered by the same person who is employed with programme funding is to be determined by schools and Funding Recipients. However, to avoid potential role confusion, best practice recommends that these roles be conducted by different persons. Where this is not a school preference/not possible, schools need to ensure they take all necessary steps to delineate the roles, including on the school website as per Section 6.5
• attempting to convert students to a religion or set of beliefs through proselytising/evangelising. School chaplains/student welfare workers must not
  
  • coerce students to attend activities that have religious content/focus
    
  • ask or encourage students to proselytise/evangelise within the school
    
  • deliver activities/services that promote a particular view or religious belief without prior approval and consent as per Sections 3.1 and 5.2
    
  • put students in a position of feeling manipulated or intruded upon by intense persuasive conversation.

...

https://docs.education.gov.au/system/fi ... elines.pdf

I'd love to see the reaction if Muslim's came into schools.

Muslims are allowed to participate, so I wouldn't be surprised if they're already there.

[Bounce]

They're not there to teach the Christian faith. They're only there to provide support to students who ask for it.

That's my bad. I was thinking about the SRI classes. Regardless, upon further research (and common sense) it's clear that they will only offer advice that they see fit or have to defer to someone trained in the matter. If someone wants to speak to a chaplain they should be able to do so out of school context, and not force everyone else to talk to a religious ideologue.

If they aren't to counsel on religious grounds they wouldn't be there, if they are and cannot meet the needs of the student, they have to refer the student elsewhere. Which just begs the question, why have them at all?

The Australian Psychological Society described the decision as "appalling". "There are no reasonable standards of quality of training for people who take on essentially counselling roles in the school situation," spokesman and psychologist David Stokes said.

[Rejn]

That's my bad. I was thinking about the SRI classes. Regardless, upon further research (and common sense) it's clear that they will only offer advice that they see fit or have to defer to someone trained in the matter. If someone wants to speak to a chaplain they should be able to do so out of school context, and not force everyone else to talk to a religious ideologue.

If they aren't to counsel on religious grounds they wouldn't be there, if they are and cannot meet the needs of the student, they have to refer the student elsewhere. Which just begs the question, why have them at all?

Chaplains are trained to be and are essentially counsellors. To their clients, the only difference between them and other counsellors is that these guys are also equipped to provide spiritual advice if asked. Some kids have spiritual needs I guess. Also, "ideologue" is a bit much considering chaplains are trained to talk to people with other belief systems.

The Australian Psychological Society represents psychologists and would be opposed even if counsellors were in these roles. Chaplains are an easy target due to popular misconceptions however.

[Bounce]

Who they represent doesn't change the fact that the chaplaincy accreditation does not meet "reasonable standards of quality".

It's not that they are 'also' equipped, it is that they are primarily equipped. That's the main issue. Why chaplains? Why not counsellors? Why not psychologists?

[Rejn]

Who they represent doesn't change the fact that the chaplaincy accreditation does not meet "reasonable standards of quality".

It's not that they are 'also' equipped, it is that they are primarily equipped. That's the main issue. Why chaplains? Why not counsellors? Why not psychologists?

The APA would not consider counsellors to meet "reasonable standards of quality" either.

Psychologists are qualified at a postgraduate level. They would be overpriced for the work that counsellors do.

[Igor Antunov]

But secular counselors aren't as likely to be tainted with the brush of inherent Abrahamic bias. Many of these chaplains seeks to grow their flock of imbeciles.

Also statistically less likely to kiddie fiddle or preach suicide bombing 101.

Ultimately, public tax funds should not be going to religious clergy for any reason. They and their employers already receive criminal tax breaks.

[Rejn]

But secular counselors aren't as likely to be tainted with the brush of inherent Abrahamic bias. Many of these chaplains seeks to grow their flock of imbeciles.

Also statistically less likely to kiddie fiddle or preach suicide bombing 101.

Ultimately, public tax funds should not be going to religious clergy for any reason. They and their employers already receive criminal tax breaks.

Let me just reiterate that I don't support this policy or any policies involving government handouts going to explicitly religious organisations. I'm only here to combat some misconceptions about chaplains and the program.

[colliric]

But secular counselors aren't as likely to be tainted with the brush of inherent Abrahamic bias. Many of these chaplains seeks to grow their flock of imbeciles.

Also statistically less likely to kiddie fiddle or preach suicide bombing 101.

Ultimately, public tax funds should not be going to religious clergy for any reason. They and their employers already receive criminal tax breaks.

The clergy are on hand at these schools simply to provide spiritual services to those that ask for it. This also occurs in the navy, army, at public hospitals, in the public service, and the Anglican Church is specifically listed as the official church to provide services and chaplaincy for formal government/parliamentary services.

The addition of access to these services to public schools is simply reflective of the accessibility to these services in the wider community, including secular universities and Tafes.... And even Eastland Shopping Centre at Ringwood and also Crown Casino has their own chaplaincy program!!!

[Igor Antunov]

Yes, the spread of religion continues to our detriment.

[colliric]

Yes, the spread of religion continues to our detriment.

You wouldn't even think these places employ chaplains officially, but the fact is they do.

Why people fuss about it happening in Public Schools specifically is beyond me. Perhaps it's because places like Crown tend to keep the services only for employees and people who happen to stumble upon the well hidden Church of England Anglican Chapel. The COE runs the Crown Casino Chaplaincy service.

Imagine my surprise when I saw a specifically Catholic Church(services held there every Sunday) next to the dunnies on the second floor of Eastland in Ringwood... The weirdest place I have ever found a Catholic Church/Chapel in!

[Bounce]

Why people fuss about it happening in Public Schools specifically is beyond me.

Because the State is sponsoring religion by prioritising it in schools. Why we need Chaplains is beyond me.

[colliric]

Because the State is sponsoring religion by prioritising it in schools. Why we need Chaplains is beyond me.

It just seems like it's the easy, public target to me.

The government employs the Church of England chaplaincy for Parliament, and the COE is the official church of the government(or more accurately, Parliament)..... Yet for them to put similar services in public schools seems to piss people off?

Why? It's stupid.

Even the Collingwood Football Club employs a regular chaplain and is connected to chaplaincy services.... Why public schools should be exempt from receiving funding for Chaplaincy is beyond me, when it is common in most other public and private corporations/companies/educators.

[Dagoth Ur]

No church belongs in a school, chaplains/priests/pastors whatever shouldn't even be allowed on the premises.