[Vladimir]

RF-SN-THP (PLO)

Demo Edit- Please note that this shall be a "Party Leaders Only" thread. Please take any discussion that arises from it to another thread of your choosing.

[Vanasalus]

This thread must be a platform to seek a common ground for a viable governing coalation.

Therefore, this thread's title should be changed to "RF-SN-THP-SLD". Or "RF-SN-THP-PUC". Or "RF-SN-THP-SLD-PUC".

Then, we will definitely join the debate. And, we will happily do our best to save this nation from the claws of fascism.

[Vladimir]

"RF-SN-THP-SLD"

already done.)

[Vanasalus]

Ok.

Without worrying about tidiness of ideas, lets start, by exposing some of my personal expectations from new government.:

1- I am against any legislation, which may lead to restrictions over freedoms unless mentioned freedoms threatens the lives of fellow humans. (e.g gun ownership)

2- I am against any legislation, detrimental to the secular nature of the state or the full religious freedoms exercised by the people.

3- New government should seek economic development while upkeeping the social justice, which is the key of social cohesiveness and internal peace.

4- I recognize public budget discipline is a fundamental pillar for the long term prosperity of nations. Therefore, I demand governments to keep the budget deficit low, in such a way total public dept should not exceed 50% of GNP.

5- Education is a fundamental right of all human beings. I would like to see an arrangement at which students and their parents pay no single penny for tuition or fees.

6- I think placing 100 seats in PoFoLand parliament helps nothing but making the legislative branch nonfunctional. Therefore, I am interested in a constitutional amendment to lower it to a meaningful number, 30-50.

7- I do not want a government responsible of producing sugar, socks and body lotion. So, I am in principal against to nationalizations of any sort, unless the nation needs it strategically.

8- Healthcare is not a commodity to be sold. I demand truly universal healthcare for all fellow citizens.

9- I am against all sorts of industrial or most sorts agricultural subsidies.

10- I am for overhauling all restrictions of trade between our country and the rest of the world.

[Vanasalus]

Most of that is well within the bounds of the SLD platform, Vanasulus. You will, of course, have to prioritize those principles, as they will not all be possible to achieve within this coalition, should it come to pass.

OK.

Lets debate which ones will be achived, and which ones, may not be.

And, let me hear the "musts" of other parties.

[Paradigm]

4- I recognize public budget discipline is a fundamental pillar for the long term prosperity of nations. Therefore, I demand governments to keep the budget deficit low, in such a way total public dept should not exceed 50% of GNP.

Under my proposed monetary policy, there would be no such thing as a budget deficit.

6- I think placing 100 seats in PoFoLand parliament helps nothing but making the legislative branch nonfunctional. Therefore, I am interested in a constitutional amendment to lower it to a meaningful number, 30-50.

I have no principled objection to this, other than I don't particularly see the need for it.

7- I do not want a government responsible of producing sugar, socks and body lotion. So, I am in principal against to nationalizations of any sort, unless the nation needs it strategically.

Natural monopolies such as railroads should be nationalized, as there would be no free market competition anyway. I also propose a nationalized central bank so as to create a debt-free monetary system.

8- Healthcare is not a commodity to be sold. I demand truly universal healthcare for all fellow citizens.

Universal healthcare is a central pillar of the SLD's platform. We can debate the specifics as to how we can best achieve it.

9- I am against all sorts of industrial or most sorts agricultural subsidies.

I believe strategic subsidies should be used for achieving goals such as energy independence. Naturally, much of this would involve funding research, but a lot of it would also be infrastructure projects.

10- I am for overhauling all restrictions of trade between our country and the rest of the world.

I would not be so quick to embrace such an open trade policy. For a newly developing country(which I assume ours would be), it's in our economic interest to protect certain infant industries. We can negotiate this, however.

[Vanasalus]

Under my proposed monetary policy, there would be no such thing as a budget deficit.

Budget deficit is not a necessarily bad thing. Budget surpass is not necessarily a good thing. Important parameters are the ratio of public debt to GNP, interest rates and the repayment terms.

To "outlaw" budget deficit is to restrict monetary muscle of the state into almost nothingness. Thus, I do not believe it would be a wise policy.

I have no principled objection to this, other than I don't particularly see the need for it.

It is impossible to keep such a big parliament interested and involving. Thus, it paves the way of leaders' tyranny over the house, since leaders will be assumed to be voice of the absent representatives.

Functionality of a parliament within democratic context is vitally important for the survival of this democratic regime.

Natural monopolies such as railroads should be nationalized, as there would be no free market competition anyway.

We may think about it.

I also propose a nationalized central bank so as to create a debt-free monetary system.

I have already divulged my opinions about debt issue. Yet, I strongly favor a state owned, yet autonomous central bank.

Universal healthcare is a central pillar of the SLD's platform. We can debate the specifics as to how we can best achieve it.

Nice to hear this.

I believe strategic subsidies should be used for achieving goals such as energy independence. Naturally, much of this would involve funding research, but a lot of it would also be infrastructure projects.

I see neither the research funding nor infrastructural projects as subsidies. These are two of the fundamental duties of the state.

Energy independence issue needs to be discussed more extensively.

[HoniSoit]

1- I am against any legislation, which may lead to restrictions over freedoms unless mentioned freedoms threatens the lives of fellow humans. (e.g gun ownership)

Whilst I'm sympathetic to this, I don't think this makes a great deal of sense unless we look at a specific policy. For example, nationalisation of strategic industries would restrict some freedom but I'm sure you still would accept that.

2- I am against any legislation, detrimental to the secular nature of the state or the full religious freedoms exercised by the people.

I agree.

3- New government should seek economic development while upkeeping the social justice, which is the key of social cohesiveness and internal peace.

I agree.

4- I recognize public budget discipline is a fundamental pillar for the long term prosperity of nations. Therefore, I demand governments to keep the budget deficit low, in such a way total public dept should not exceed 50% of GNP.

I agree with this as a principle. But economic conditions are such that it may demand deficit spending. The decision has to be made on a case by case basis.

5- Education is a fundamental right of all human beings. I would like to see an arrangement at which students and their parents pay no single penny for tuition or fees.

I agree. The SN-RF believes education will be entirely free.

6- I think placing 100 seats in PoFoLand parliament helps nothing but making the legislative branch nonfunctional. Therefore, I am interested in a constitutional amendment to lower it to a meaningful number, 30-50.

We have to discuss this in more details.

7- I do not want a government responsible of producing sugar, socks and body lotion. So, I am in principal against to nationalizations of any sort, unless the nation needs it strategically.

What about workers' self-management as opposed to nationalisation?

8- Healthcare is not a commodity to be sold. I demand truly universal healthcare for all fellow citizens.

I agree.

9- I am against all sorts of industrial or most sorts agricultural subsidies.

The decision has to be made on a case by case basis. I don't think such general statement is particularly useful when it comes to the complexity of economic management.

10- I am for overhauling all restrictions of trade between our country and the rest of the world.

This is also a general statement that would not aid us when it comes to particularly cases. Some restrictions are perhaps necessary, others are not. We have to discuss them when they come to our attention.

[Vladimir]

To add to Honi;

9- I am against all sorts of industrial or most sorts agricultural subsidies.

I agree, but what of the RF-SN clause

12. Vast-scale construction of heavily subsidised (half of the market price) multi-story proletarian residences with modern infrastructure, sanitation and transport access, basing on the Russian/Chinese microdistrict model. Make ready non-interest loans available for future dwellers. The slums will be turned into “garden cities”!

; would you agree?

10- I am for overhauling all restrictions of trade between our country and the rest of the world.

trade yes; what of outsourcing? We have a caluse

3. Heavy taxes on the export of capital and outsourcing of jobs

agree?

and education/healthcare points; I agree with what you said, but how about also a democratisation of the said systems?

8. Free universal healthcare regulated by system by doctors' and nurses' councils
9. Free education from kindergarten to doctorate
10. Regulation of the entire education system by teachers' and students' councils

---

I would also like to hear SLD's position on gun ownership within the coalition; THP is opposed, RF-SN is for total freedom. We must find a compromise

[HoniSoit]

I would also like to hear SLD's position on gun ownership within the coalition; THP is opposed, RF-SN is for total freedom. We must find a compromise

I think this may be something we have to agree to disagree.

The really important thing is that we should not get stuck in minor issues as we would have the chance to discuss them in more details when they are put forward in the parliament.

I don't think we need complete agreement in everything as long as we can keep the disagreement within a healthy margin.

[Falx]

Terribly sorry to have missed this so far, Van for future reference if these situations arise just say what we have passed so far in our own party and start new votes in the thread about ones that do not fall within anything that we have agreed upon before.

The stated preference of everyone within the party, that has stated it including me, has been no deals with the SLD, let alone the PUC. We do have an agreement with the SN-RF:

Actually we will probably decide to pass parliamentary votes that you propose by a much lowered threshold, the most likely being we reject it if 0-25% vote for, we abstain if 25-40% vote for and we vote with you if 40-100% vote for it.

You are welcome to start an official motion in THP thread about a further alliance with SLD or PUC, even though I haven't seen any interest from them, and well let you know in a few days of voting if we will have the same agreement with you.

The debate here is welcome however and any member of the THP is free to demand what they want for their vote, hopefully this will put a break on making too many alliances and defeating the secondary reason for creating the party.

THP is opposed

Van is opposed, not THP as a whole, we still haven't had a vote on this.

[HoniSoit]

Nice to see you back, Falx.

no deals with the SLD

Is this final?

[Falx]

Like I've said, this is what people have stated so far, if they open a vote in our thread with an argument why we should care we will vote and let you know if we will give them the same deal as you within 4 days - same amount of time we gave the SN-FR.

[Vladimir]

This is an RF-SN-THP thread ONLY as of now. There will be no more negotiations with SLD