[Donna]

Demosthenes,

I don't ever recall voting on the size of the parliament. This seems to have been decided by the few for the many. My party isn't a 'losing horse', it's a small horse. I'm an active participant in the game, but as it stands, only Fasces would sit in parliament. The rest of us, according to these silly designs, have to twiddle our thumbs...doing literally nothing. People are getting booted out of the game, pretty much. I shouldn't have to switch parties just to get a seat in parliament, to simply play the damn game.

I don't really see much recourse unless this is changed. Anyone who wants to sit in parliament should be able to sit in parliament. Design the size of the parliament after the elections if you must.

Kicking people out of the game is a sure way to piss people off. I don't want to use threats or anything, but I'm more than aware how much SF hates this thing.

[Demosthenes]

I don't ever recall voting on the size of the parliament. This seems to have been decided by the few for the many. My party isn't a 'losing horse', it's a small horse. I'm an active participant in the game, but as it stands, only Fasces would sit in parliament. The rest of us, according to these silly designs, have to twiddle our thumbs...doing literally nothing. People are getting booted out of the game, pretty much. I shouldn't have to switch parties just to get a seat in parliament, to simply play the damn game.

No, all of this is just you being a sore loser. Period. The rules now in terms of figuring seats are NO different than they were before. The D'hondt method. You didn't have a problem with that before when your party was doing fine in the PUC. You choose a smaller party of your own free will. There was no vote on seat number because the game was falling apart AND You know that. Several decisions had to be made on the fly, with as much discussion as was possible, but with an eye toward moving to a constructive phase sooner rather than later. Judging from voting totals, that was wise as far more people were watching, but not posting, than I think any of us anticipated.

The fact that you missed all that *somehow* along with most everything else, it seems, is neither the game's fault, nor my fault, nor any other member in here. It's YOURS!

You knew about the GM council all along, Don't pretend you didn't. YOu had to know you wouldn't get a vote in every single aspect of the game, and if you didn't then you shouldn't be playing anyway.

You were happy with the rules until you realized where your party was heading. Now rather than legitimately recruit voters as most of the other parties are doing you're throwing your little tantrum and threatening all of us, and whether you say you aren't threatening the game with...I don't know what you're talking about concerning Fox, but YOU ARE threatening everyone.

That is pretty fucking childish honestly. "I can't get my way, so dammit, I'll fuck everyone else over too then, nyah, nyah." Whatever dude, I have your post copied. If you wanna pull something childish, do you really think Fox is going to listen to you over me, when I explain what is going on and when practically EVERY one else in the sim will back my version of events? Paricularly all the mods involved in this?

So, let's get back to being contructive, and before you piss and moan more, let me explain something to you about GM'ing. It's not that fucking fun. You may think in some utopian e-world, doing this kinda thing is "Cool" and weeee...and whatever, but the bulk of what I do amounts to making decisions that piss off half the people in the game in one way or another, delete fucking posts from pig-headed users who refuse follow simple fucking posting-rules that were put in place to protect the game (because they think they're cute by doing it or something ), and having to play king dickhead to everyone just to try and keep order. ALSO I DON"T GET AN MP SEAT EITHER. So, I have no sympathy for your whining. Even if a government takes power, and I get to actually take a far smaller role, I don't get to vote either.

But if you'd stop whining long enough to try and understand the game better you'd understand that those things like haggling, bargaining, and whatever else are actually a large part of the fun of this.

Don't fucking threaten us with anything like that again. I have a certain amount of respect for you, but acting like that is just unacceptable.

[Demosthenes]

Let me add a couple things:

First, if you wanna do this breakaway thing, I don't care. But you're still not going to be voting, and unless you convince enough people to take you seriously, it's gonna amount to nothing.

Second, why not join PNL? I gave you a freebie vote change, in case you missed it, which I just chastised others for doing "over-the-table", as an option to you. I know, you don't like PNL very much. The point is, they favor the 100 seats. Stands to reason, if they get in power through coalition or whatever, you might be able to convince them to change it back, then you could form your own party again...or rejoin whoever...

I mean, just because you face a setback, doesn't mean you can't find ways to work the game to your favor, just do it legally, and without...the drama.

Please.

[Donna]

Demosthenes, calm down. You're getting too personal and OOC.

No, all of this is just you being a sore loser. Period. The rules now in terms of figuring seats are NO different than they were before. The D'hondt method.

I have no issue with the D'Hondt method. I take issue with a parliament the size of a town council. I take issue with a design that essentially phases active players out of the game because we don't want to accommodate casual players.

Several decisions had to be made on the fly, with as much discussion as was possible, but with an eye toward moving to a constructive phase sooner rather than later.

Self-appointed decisions were made. An authorative body was required, but evidently, you and others became too comfortable with it. Did it ever occur to you to hold a vote on some of these matters? You say it isn't easy moderating this game, but it's not like you have done terribly much to create a sense of legitimacy for the GM council. No one is forcing you to make "hard decisions" when you have an entire spectrum of participants who would be more than happy to do that for you.

Most of the 'game-threatening' issues that sparked the initial inception of the GM council were never voted upon either, as they should have. Nothing was voted on, not even the three documents that were boiled together to create our currently standing 'constitution'. It was basically you trumpeting the potential doom of the game whilst assuming dictatorial powers over the game's design, which somehow managed to extend to the constitution itself. Don't dare tell me how hard it is to "GM" when you haven't done much to make your workload any easier. If you want the buck to stop at your desk, then expect a pile of shit to be heaped on it as well.

Second, why not join PNL? I gave you a freebie vote change, in case you missed it, which I just chastised others for doing "over-the-table", as an option to you. I know, you don't like PNL very much. The point is, they favor the 100 seats. Stands to reason, if they get in power through coalition or whatever, you might be able to convince them to change it back, then you could form your own party again...or rejoin whoever...

For now, I changed my vote to PNL. I do plan to proceed with the Republic of Latham because I honestly do believe the GM council will destroy the game before the next election cycle, if forming a government will even be possible. It's up to the self-appointed game-gods whether they want to count my vote or not. I really don't care. I think the general basis of this simulation is a fun idea, but honestly Demos, you have over-dramatized it by announcing an intrinsic "need" for a GM council, which was propped up right in the middle of Dan's confidence vote. You know, a government could have actually formed from that thing since the only outstanding issue was bloc voting. But, you felt it was necessary to literally reformat the game. I won't say a GM council is not necessary, because Ingliz has clearly proven that it is, but you need to stop tripping and start inquiring.

That is all.

I appreciate that you have respect for me. In a way, I wish you were my father.

[ingliz]

The "Republic of Latham" is outside the rule agreed when you voted. You continue to persist in this flagrant flouting of the rules and so I give you fair warning that I am registering an official objection to your vote being counted.

For now, I changed my vote to PNL. I do plan to proceed with the Republic of Latham

[Donna]

I think I've made my point with HoniSoit, and I will keep him in touch with my concerns as far as the GM council goes. To retain the legitimacy of my participation in the election and the (Pofo's) parliament, I declare the Republic of Latham defunct and its motion for sovereignty struck down notwithstanding.

[Demosthenes]

Alright, I'm calm. But you have to understand that I've been working on this thing pretty much everyday non-stop, trying to put out fires, and finding fair ways to implement what seems to be consesus opinion, balanced by what is workable in reality. So your last comment just rubbbed me the wrong way. Considering your willingness to let this go, I will as well.

you and others became too comfortable with it.

I really don't think this is the case. I'm not that comfortable being a lizard overlord, but it DID need to be done, and it DID have to be mod, and the rest of the OT mods, except Gnote, aren't involved. Gnote could handle it but he doesn't have the time to be here everyday.

but it's not like you have done terribly much to create a sense of legitimacy for the GM council

Well, I'm not sure what more CAN be done. It's a fine balance between making sure everyone has some freedom to play how they want, and yet upholding some basic concepts that keep the game playable. Even Lizard overlords can be exterminated if a majority feel they are being unreasonable. Besides, my sincere hope is that we will be completely relegated to "administrative" duties once a goverment can take off with it all.

Most of the 'game-threatening' issues that sparked the initial inception of the GM council were never voted upon either, as they should have.

While I agree that voting on most issues, at least in concept, is the best way to determine majority opinion, the reality is votes drag on for too long and tie the game up in procedure too often. It's simply not practical to call for a vote every single time an important decision is made. If more regulars were playing and you could count on high voting numbers, then sure...that's the way to go. But that had not been the way it was when we had to create the Gm council. Unfortunately.

It was basically you trumpeting the potential doom of the game

It wasn't just me, I was getting requests and comments from several sides concerning the lack of anything concrete and the loss of any sense of direction as the game became bogged down in hopeless attempts to form coalitions.

Nothing was voted on, not even the three documents that were boiled together to create our currently standing 'constitution'.

This is true, but I DID put them up in the GM council for discussion, as requested by Okonkwo, with the stipulation that we needed to move forward at the risk of alienating too many people from so much inaction for so long. I was more than willing to hear discussion on the items I gathered, and make changes as necessitated by those concerns voiced. I took the lack of any discussion as my imperitive to move forward as I saw fit. Further, please note, I struck the 2/3rds vote necessary to change the constitution for JUST this reason, in case I had fattally errored in some way, the users could easily fix it as THEY saw fit. I'm trying to cover my ass here.

If you want the buck to stop at your desk, then expect a pile of shit to be heaped on it as well.

I appreciate that, and this is all true. And really, despite what my tone was like, I don't regret it, I just meant to point out that I'm sacrificing a bit of what I consider more fun, for the sake of the game. That's all. So, I don't think it's unfair to ask that much from some other people, with the understanding that if we all do this right, we can eventually all get back to having the kinda fun we want to have!

For now, I changed my vote to PNL.

Fair enough, I think Dave is very pragmatic, and his...ways of the world and ability to negotiate favors in exchange for what he wants should suit your needs, for now anyway.

It's up to the self-appointed game-gods whether they want to count my vote or not

For my personaly feeling, it still hasn't changed, former PUCs should get a little more leeway in voting as they feel their way around the remaining parties.

I think the general basis of this simulation is a fun idea, but honestly Demos, you have over-dramatized it by announcing an intrinsic "need" for a GM council, which was propped up right in the middle of Dan's confidence vote.

Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, all I can tell you is that I didn't see Falx's thread until AFTER the gm council had formed. I assure you, had I seen it, I would have been more than willing to give them a chance. As it stands, whether I'm wrong or right about how that occured, it still seems to me we are reaching a higher level of stabilization. At least, I hope we are.

I appreciate that you have respect for me. In a way, I wish you were my father.

Well...thank you, I think it's fine to leave it at e-friends, and know we can both be opinionated and passionate when we're playing all these berious susiness e-games!!!