[Dr House]

Guys how about this: We form a government, appoint a cabinet and squabble about this later. our positions are pretty close to each other anyway.

[Dave]

This is going no where.We should just form the goverment on the basis of common beliefs we do have, and then sort this out when these things come up for voting.

While progress is being made, you raise a good point.

viewtopic.php?f=89&t=104284

I invite people to join me in this thread to see if we can forge such a coalition.

Well, to me, the idea behind GMI is that it is our equal share in the wealth. Others in my party may want to overrule me on this and make it so that people above a certain income don't receive a GMI. If that's the case, I'm willing to accept it. I would also accept dilpill's proposal as an alternative.

The comfortable already have wealth and presumably don't need their "equal share". Sending them checks just diverts resources from either the private sector or other pressing governmental priorities.

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

I was a bit worried last night when this thread went for 4 hours with no replies, but today it's completely raging.

My take: I think Gnote's proposals for benefits are completely unaffordable. I'm saying this as an economist who did some quick math. By US standards, $25,000 for all 200 million adults adds up to $5 trillion, or a third of the GDP. Not going to be workable.

I think we could nudge up the size of the benefits scale a bit at the bottom (maybe a $4,000-5,000 GMI instead of $2,500?) and add a few things like food stamps, which I actually assumed would probably exist but didn't put in the platform explicitly. I was worried about winning CA votes without losing the SLD, but that looks to be damn near impossible at this point. We could also make the health care subsidies larger and compensate by nudging up all the tax rates by three or four points each.

Maybe instead of numerical details, we should just write up basic ideas about what kind of programs should exist and worry about the size of all the taxes, transfers and benefits later. That really ought to be something that we work out AFTER forming a government. I may be sorry that I brought up this thread, I was hoping to forge an alliance but just ended up contributing to another dimension of squabbles.

[Paradigm]

Guys how about this: We form a government, appoint a cabinet and squabble about this later. our positions are pretty close to each other anyway.

That sounds like a plan to me. Anyone else on board?

[Gnote]

There is no chance that I will support a coalition that has not agreed, at least in broad strokes, to implement a guaranteed minimum income to individuals below the poverty line that is at least equivalent to the poverty line.

[Dr House]

I may be sorry that I brought up this thread, I was hoping to forge an alliance but just ended up contributing to another dimension of squabbles.

Gnote started it.

There is no chance that I will support a coalition that has not agreed, at least in broad strokes, to implement a guaranteed minimum income to individuals below the poverty line that is at least equivalent to the poverty line.

Paradigm's proposal sounds all right to me, assuming he acquiesces to my request of a reduction of 25 cents per dollar earned above the minimum wage.

[Paradigm]

Paradigm's proposal sounds all right to me, assuming he acquiesces to my request of a reduction of 25 cents per dollar earned above the minimum wage.

I can agree to that.

[Dave]

I am NOT okay with a GMI check going to everyone in the country. Too expensive. Corporate executive don't need it.

[Gnote]

I'm not agreeing to anything with work requirements attached to it.

[Gnote]

I am NOT okay with a GMI check going to everyone in the country. Too expensive. Corporate executive don't need it.

My proposal doesn't require this.

[Dr House]

I'm not agreeing to anything with work requirements attached to it.

And I'm not agreeing to anything without work requirements attached to it, so we're at a bit of an impasse.

You see, I agree that we should strive for greater leisure time, but for workers, not at their expense.

[Gnote]

There is no coalition to be had here.

[Dave]

I trust the rest of your party is a bit more agreeable.

[Gnote]

My party can support the coalition if it chooses to.

I will remain loyal to my party, but will not vote to support the coalition.

[Dr House]

There is no coalition to be had here.

You are not the party leader Gnote. I have been mighty generous so far, but you're not the one with the final say in this decision and you are outnumbered. Either defect to The Obstructionist Party or give some ground, FFS.

[Gnote]

I've given substantial ground.

All the way from a $25,000 guaranteed income for all citizens, to a guaranteed income equal to the poverty line for those below it and less than the poverty line for those above it.

That is substantial ground. Incredibly substantial ground.

[Paradigm]

Gnote, cool it. I think we've gotten a good deal so far. We can try and renegotiate this once we have a coalition. This good cop/bad cop routine isn't working anymore, and we need to get serious about this.

[Dave]

Screw this GMI discussion, we need to expand! Let's invade Iceland.

[Gnote]

Paradigm,

Summarize your final proposal surrounding the guaranteed income.

I am not comfortable supporting a coalition until the broad strokes of this issue have been agreed upon by all parties to it.

[Falx]

This is as amusing to watch than a train wreck
Can you call me when you start to march in goose step? At the rate the coalition is moving to the right I guess this will be in about a week?