[Karl_Bonner_1982]

And Bonner, Reagan didn't start us down the path of economic decline, he just didn't help.

I never said "economic decline," I said "inequality." And if you look at the historical graphs of not only the Gini but also the percentage of wealth/income concentrated in the top 5/1/0.1/0.01 percent, there's a clear upward trend which really kicks in solidly in the 1980s.

[Dan]

i. $0-25,000: 0 percent
ii. $25,000-50,000: 10 percent
iii. $50,000-100,000: 18 percent
iv. $100,000-200,000: 25 percent
v. $200,000-400,000: 30 percent
vi. $400,000-1 million: 35 percent
vii. $1 million - 5 million: 40 percent
viii. $5 million - $10 million: 45 percent
ix. $10 million and up: 50 percent

Unacceptable.

Corporate Tax:

i. Income lower than $500,000: 15%
ii. Income between $500,000 and $1,000,000: 17%
iii. Income between $1,000,000 and $15,000,000: 20%
iv. Income between $15,000,000 and $50,000,000: 22%
v. Income over $50,000,000: 25%

The rates are reasonable, but we would prefer a flat rate, with a basic tax-free amount.

10% on all merchandise not deemed essential. Excludes all food including restaurant meals. Excludes all clothing items below $100, and all housing below 100% of market value.

Unacceptable.

Guaranteed annual minimum income of $25,000 for every person above the age of 18, and $10,000 for every child below that level who remains in the custody of their parents. This minimum income negates the need for all direct transfer payments to individuals, but does not replace social spending on programs like health care and education.

Unacceptable. A GMI is unacceptable.

Mandatory universal, single-payer health insurance for every citizen.

Single-payer and mandatory, I do not agree with. It can be universal, there can even be a form of public insurance, but no single-payer system and no mandatory. There has to be an opt-out for private insurance.

The CA also does not like silly games.

[Dr House]

A GMI is unacceptable.

Well you're gonna have to accept a wage subsidy at least at any rate, because that's my position and I'm not giving it up.

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

Dan, what's the maximum marginal tax rate for people earning over $10 million that you would accept? Not the rate you really want, but the maximum acceptable rate?

I said that there should be the option of buying private insurance, and that people who aren't near poverty should be expected to partially pay into the public plan so as not to drive up the tax requirements too far.

If you say that no amount of GMI is acceptable, then what about wage supplements for the working poor? A system with no minimum wage (or a very low minimum wage) and no income assistance programs for the working poor would be totally unacceptable to me. Dr. House is with me on this one it seems...

[Dan]

Well you're gonna have to accept a wage subsidy at least at any rate, because that's my position and I'm not giving it up.

If we're talking about the government paying part of the wages of an individual to a business to get the business to hire the individual, then that is negotiable.

Dan, what's the maximum marginal tax rate for people earning over $10 million that you would accept? Not the rate you really want, but the maximum acceptable rate?

Depends on what other taxes were. But I'd say 40% is the absolute maximum if there was minimal other taxes. I also object to graduated tax; I would prefer a flat tax with a tax exemption for a certain amount of income for every individual each year (say, the first $10,000 is tax free every year, as an example).

If you say that no amount of GMI is acceptable, then what about wage supplements for the working poor? A system with no minimum wage (or a very low minimum wage) and no income assistance programs for the working poor would be totally unacceptable to me. Dr. House is with me on this one it seems...

It depends on the scheme and the specifics, but it has to meet certain criteria, a few of which are: 1) It has to encourage people to work; no free rides (for individuals or corporations). 2) It can not create overly strong, harmful effects on the free-market. 3) It can not unduly restrict individuals' economic freedoms.

There are probably others that I can't think of right now, but you get the general point.

[Dr House]

If we're talking about the government paying part of the wages of an individual to a business to get the business to hire the individual, then that is negotiable.

Basically we're talking about the government paying (downward-scaling) benefits to working people, in addition to a low minimum wage, to mitigate working poverty and at the same time minimize unskilled unemployment.

Additionally, parenting and volunteer work are to be considered employment for benefits purposes. People doing volunteer work for a minimum of 20 hours a week and stay-at-home moms (or dads) in two-parent households will receive the maximum benefit (75% of the poverty line) in addition to any other benefits they might be entitled to, if any.

My welfare policy is to be found here. The part about volunteer work and parenting is not there because it was decided later.

Depends on what other taxes were. But I'd say 40% is the absolute maximum if there was minimal other taxes. I also object to graduated tax; I would prefer a flat tax with a tax exemption for a certain amount of income for every individual each year (say, the first $10,000 is tax free every year, as an example).

I can agree to negotiate a lower level of tax graduation, but that the income tax will be graduated is not up for discussion, since no one other than your party will agree to it. Besides, for reasons I mentioned in the other thread a graduated income tax is more efficient and better from an utilitarian perspective. A lower tax on the rich can go on the table, but not a flat tax.

[Gnote]

I hope the PNL is prepared to attack Dan with the fervor it attacked me for my so-called 'unreasonable' demands. Dan has a party of 7, and is basically trying to set the coalition platform himself.

[Cheesecake_Marmalade]

I agree with Gnote, Dan. A bit of pragmatism is in order. Sitting on a coalition with us is better than letting the socialists rule.

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

Tell ya what...let's just focus on setting up the four-party coalition and forget detailed economic plans. I think we all agree that the future of PoFo lies in our hands. The radical left, THP and hardcore libertarians and fascists won't be able to work a coalition with anybody, at least not at the moment. In the end our economic platform will have to cut somewhere down the middle of our coalition. Perhaps we could approve the economic manifesto with a two-thirds or three-quarters intracoalitional vote when the time comes.

This has been a fun experience so far...almost too fun. I never thought I'd be working in a government that includes fascists and communists, let alone find myself as a close policy teammate with the guy I used to squabble with when I first came here. It's also a unique experience to find myself very close to the median position when it comes to economic issues. As someone who spent eight years living under the Bush administration in the United States, I always felt like a left-wing outsider. Here I am the ultimate moderate.

[Vanasalus]

Tell ya what...let's just focus on setting up the four-party coalition and forget detailed economic plans. I think we all agree that the future of PoFo lies in our hands.

2 of those 4 "mainstream" parties have no whatsoever connection to the mainstream. They are fascists.

If such a coalition is forged, then we will divulge the real face this fascist government to good people of PoFo in every platform available.

[Cheesecake_Marmalade]

2 of those 4 parties have no whatsoever connection tot the mainstream. They are fascists.

O rly?

So, go ahead and show me these fascist policies. I invite you to look at our platform and inform us where the fascism lies. Where's the corporatism? National syndicalism? Consolidation of freedoms? Opposition to democracy? Universal, state run health care? Opposition to capitalism?

The definition of the word "fascism" is not "political opinions which Vanasalus disagrees with".

[Falx]

Well cheese seeing as none if the current parties fit your world view why not join mine? According to people in your party it's just like the Nazi party.

[Cheesecake_Marmalade]

In your opinion, what policies do I share with the Nazis?

[Vanasalus]

So, go ahead and show me these fascist policies. I invite you to look at our platform and inform us where the fascism lies. Where's the corporatism? National syndicalism? Consolidation of freedoms? Opposition to democracy? Universal, state run health care? Opposition to capitalism?

We all know these motions are nothing but the velvet glove around iron fist to gain some mainstream votes, which, unfortunately, became partially successful. Now the same velvet glove is around to make us believe those fascists are in fact not fascists, but some good old "mainstream" dudes.

I do not want to reveal names. But, we all know line of thought of the leadership of those two parties. There is a thin yet a deep line between optimism and naivety: You cannot grow cherry on a cactus.

[Falx]

In your opinion, what policies do I share with the Nazis?

I'd imagine a lot more in common than I have with Hitler in this war of hyperbole

[Cheesecake_Marmalade]

We all know these motions are nothing but the velvet glove around [the] iron fist to gain some mainstream votes, which, unfortunately, became partially successful.

See, I didn't join this simulation for the same reasons you did. I joined it so that I could have fun and pretend to be on a parliament, not do... actually I have no fucking clue what you're doing. You guys don't seem to be having any fun at all, you're just harassing the people who actually do want to participate in government. Your party serves no purpose except to harass.

See, the SN/RF employ similar rhetoric to you, but in a tongue and cheek way. They also don't disrupt other party's thread with their nonsense.

I'd imagine a lot more in common than I have with Hitler in this war of hyperbole

So basically you're saying that I don't have anything in common with Hitler. Wonderful, we got that out of the way.

Anyway, Donald is not part of my party, and neither am I Donald, so I don't really see why you think comparing me to Hitler is tit for tat. Please refrain from personal insults. I don't want to report you to the basement because I don't want this shut down, but if you continue your harassment of me I will be forced to.

[Falx]

This just got a lot more surreal, Donald the gay fascist is now a centrist

Sorry bout that, I thought he was in the PNL.

[Cheesecake_Marmalade]

no problem.

He said he wouldn't be in the fascist party unless Manuel was party leader.

[Brio]

He said he wouldn't be in the fascist party unless Manuel was party leader.

I think the spirit of Manuel lurks somewhere close.

[Vanasalus]

See, I didn't join this simulation for the same reasons you did. I joined it so that I could have fun and pretend to be on a parliament, not do... actually I have no fucking clue what you're doing. You guys don't seem to be having any fun at all, you're just harassing the people who actually do want to participate in government.

Of course, we want a government to be formed out of this parliament. A government true to the good people of PoFo…

We believe such a government cannot be formed while sheltering fascist elements within. And, it is our right to phrase this concern.