[Falx]

Demo just threw D'Holt out of the window by not counting 14 of the seats. We aren't morons, we can calculate fractions and percentages until parliament decides what if anything will replace a direct weight of votes.

[ingliz]

So you are not so democratic after all? You support MP's "votes" having different weighting in your parliament and not the 'one man, one vote' ballot.

The whole problem with the interim document is bloc voting and its abuse and that is why it needs replacing before fresh elections are called. The THP has 8 inactive unassigned votes, the PNL 9, the SLD 7, the Pop 2, etc etc, this is the problem!

[Fasces]

We have no unassigned votes. Donald is an active member, for example, and simply does not have a seat with us until the next election cycle. As a party, we chose to consolidate our votes.

[Demosthenes]

So you are not so democratic after all? You support MP's "votes" having different weighting in your parliament and not the 'one man, one vote' ballot.

The whole problem with the interim document is bloc voting and its abuse and that is why it needs replacing before fresh elections are called. The THP has 8 inactive unassigned votes, the PNL 9, the SLD 7, the Pop 2, etc etc, this is the problem!

You know I have already stricken block voting.

[Zyx]

Ok, this is growing too much. Why we couldn't have one text to debate from the get-go, I do not understand. Either way, what's the update?

I can't follow these tangents (I thought they were supposed to be deleted?)

[ingliz]

Which makes no difference if the old interim constitution is ratified when the 'right', who lack active membership and need every vote, take the government later this week.

And don't pretend the SLD is centre left and doesn't suffer a deficit of active players when they are not and do.

At the moment it is true the left and right are just about even, controlling 45 -50 votes between them, as 2/3 of the right's votes are in limbo lacking an MP to cast them but unless you make no bloc voting a GM imposed precondition of play the 'inactive' right would be foolish not to reinstate the practice at the earliest opportunity.

Zyx:

This is the thread to discuss "tangents" so it is doubtful any posts will be deleted.

[Demosthenes]

At the moment it is true the left and right are just about even, controlling 45 -50 votes between them, as 2/3 of the right's votes are in limbo lacking an MP to cast them but unless you make no bloc voting a GM imposed precondition of play the 'inactive' right would be foolish not to reinstate the practice at the earliest opportunity.

That's what I mean, I thought I'd done that already.

[Dr House]

So you are not so democratic after all?

This is not a direct democracy Ingliz. There is no reason MP votes have to be weighted the same way as electoral votes, and you only keep pushing that bullshit because it helps your party.

At any rate, I agree with Gnote. We need fresh elections.

[Zyx]

We should have game mechanics before an election.

Or maybe each party should come up with a game mechanics and we all vote for a game mechanic and a party (separately.)

[ingliz]

This is not a direct democracy Ingliz...you only keep pushing that bullshit because it helps your party.

I am a communist what bullshit do you think I am going to push?

Demo:

Thankyou for clearing that up, I had thought all GM preconditions were subject to change by parliament including bloc voting.

The nice thing however, is that anything the GM/council decide can be overturned or changed by any ruling government. If/When they take power.

[Falx]

So you are not so democratic after all? You support MP's "votes" having different weighting in your parliament and not the 'one man, one vote' ballot.

Wait what?
As far as I can tell we vote for parties who then select mp's from their user base.

The fact is that of the 8 inactive THP users 5 said they only vote for us because they don't care enough about this simulation but they don't want it to be overrun by communists/fascists/libertarians/whatever. If you want to have athenian democracy where everyone gets a vote fine. I support that and with that I will also exit parliament apart from special interest debates on issues that I find intersting, all parties will be dead by that point. As far as I understand though this is meant to be a simulator of western democracy as it has been for the last century or so.

[ingliz]

So you were quite happy with Donald controlling 14 votes, his party's user base was himself?

[Falx]

Hell no, which is why I'm going all out trying to get an election started.

[ingliz]

We don't have an active user base large enough to support a 100 seat chamber. If this is a simulation of a Western democracy then parliament must be made smaller. I cannot think of one Western legislature that allows absentee proxy voting; all have complicated "pairing" arrangements for missing MP's, but I don't see that working here, hence the need for new rules before a new election is called.

Proxy Voting

According to Robert’s Rules of Order, 1896, parliamentary procedure is based on the consideration of the rights: of the majority, of the minority (especially a large minority greater than one-third), of individual members, of absentee members, of all of these groups taken together.

It is unknown to a strictly deliberative assembly, and is in conflict with the idea of the equality of members, which is a fundamental principle of deliberative assemblies. There can be but little use for debate where one member has more votes than another, possibly more than all the others combined.

ps. The reason there are so many edits in my last post is that I added this after you had posted and took it away to post here.

[Oxymoron]

lets have a US system, with each party putting 1 candidate at a time against the other parties candidates for a 10 seat Senate(Not all parties have enough people so they will have to choose their fights). Then each party will produce a Presidential choice there will be an election, and we will have a goverment. The President will select 3 Judges for the Supreme court who must get by the Senate.

[Falx]

Yes oxy but the American system is stable and boring. There is no chance of anything out of the ordinary happening without half of the government seceding, at which fox would kill the game. The European system is unstable, volatile and damn near unworkable.

[Oxymoron]

Well we can have Monica Gate or something. I think it would be fun to campaign gain votes independently of the party. Come on obviously the Parliment system is fucked.

[Falx]

It wouldn't be if the someone took the broom out of their asses and let a general election be called. This is how it works in Europe and this is why we have the lowest voter turnout of any continent.

[Demosthenes]

The American system, while probably "most workable" in terms of keeping things as they are is plagued with voter burnout and abstract concepts that are applied so arbitrarily as to be meaningless. In a stale, two party system, like that in the US, you would have the PUC vs. The SLD. And that's about it.

All other voices would be drowned out.

I just don't see that as desirable in any way, and I doubt many here do either, outside a few exceptions.

[Oxymoron]

a stale, two party system, like that in the US, you would have the PUC vs. The SLD. And that's about it.

We dont have issues with donations, and getting ballots I think the American system would be the most workable in our enviroment. Let the people select individuals, rather then vague general concepts.