[Dr House]

We aren't as developed as America in the 1910s - 1930s.

Yes we are. We're more developed in fact, given that American GDP peaked at $7,000 per head in 1929 (in constant 2000 dollars). Most countries in South America are wealthier than that.

Remember that agriculture produces a lot less revenue and jobs relative to the land area it occupies than industry or services. If the island is half-rural then I'd expect farming to occupy 5-10% of GDP and around the same amount of employment. Meanwhile industry probably occupies 40% of GDP and 5% of employment and services take up the rest.

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

Latitude 40 10 North: Is this the median latitude of the main island, the median latitude of all the major islands, or the latitude of the centroid (centre of area)?

Climate: In the Gulf Stream, 40 degrees latitude would mean that the winters are pretty balmy, at least in places along the southwest coast. Extreme southern Ireland and the Cornwall Peninsula of England are around 50 N and the climate is mild enough to grow a diverse range of palms and subtropical plants. I believe that those two spots have average January temperatures (avg between day and night) of around 6 degrees C, so SW Onnela would probably be at least 10C in the coldest month. It would be a temperate marine climate but a warm version of one, at least in the south. Think northern New Zealand or the coast of central California...

[Thunderhawk]

10N 40W




Wouldnt that have made the island a natural stopping point for the Africa-Carribean-Europe triangular trade route?

An initial, if not permanent, Spanish and Portugese presence would make more sense then English. A viking presence would not make sense, nor would it make sense to be a refuge for those fleeing the religious persecution as better options were available even closer (the USA).

(route: Slaves from Africa dropped off in the Carribean, sugar/cash crops from the Carribean dropped off in Europe, cash, equipment and soldiers/people from Europe dropped off in Africa. Repeat cycle.)







If we are sticking to the viking/European association, I would suggest we place the islands in the red region:
As it could (and probably would have..) been settled by Scandinavians going aviking.


The beige region strikes me as better. The islands could be very old volcanic islands caused by the seperation of the two tectonic plates (how islands like Iceland, the Azores, and a couple other mid atlantic islands were formed).
The geogrpahical location makes it a good location for stop overs during the age of sail, but in the modern age it would be redundant - much like the Azores.

[Holt]

I move that the islands be located much further north, for the reasons cited by Thunderhawk.

[Dr House]

10N 40W

Got the coordinates wrong.

40 10 North, 27 25 W

That's 40 degrees, 10 minutes North; 27 degrees, 25 minutes West. In other words, directly North of the Azores.
The rest of your argument is sound though. The island is located too far South at present.

[Thunderhawk]

40 10 North, 27 25 W

Whoops, misread. I thought karl was suggesting 50N



40 10 North, 27 25 W is basically the Azores. Although I like the idea of volcanic islands, do we want Pofo to really be the (greater) Azores?

[ingliz]

How about the South Atlantic? East of the Falklands, and slightly North. There is not so much to bump into, it is an emptier sea. And it would fit the history well enough except for the Norse connection.

[Thunderhawk]

^ When Sweden and Denmark/Norway go Protestant neo-pagan groups considered it an ideal time to reestablish their faith, hoping that by opposing Rome it would gain them acceptability from their respective protestant kings. It is initially considered a fad and ignored, thus allowing them to become established. After they had become established they were seen as a threat to the king and the establishment, and were subsequently mercilessly attacked. The believers fled, some in waves and some just one at a time, with many heading far from Scandinavia to a new land open for immigration they mispronounced as pfalandia.

[Zagadka]

Regarding position:

1) If the Vikings managed to hit Iceland, they can hit the islands where I placed them easily.

2) We need to be more southerly (the islands are on the same bearing as Paris) to justify having a climate that can support large, self-sustaining agriculture without trade.

3) Part of my criteria is that we don't re-write history; we have to slip in with as little effect as possible. If the islands were as that map with the red outline shows (between Ireland and Iceland), they would certainly have been settled a very long time before we have stats for.

4) Part of the geographical part of the islands is that we are kind of a mid-point for shipping, so I put it in a logical place.


Regarding historian:

I'll be happy to manage the history and hammer out something. I'm planning on adding things like "the Thursday Revolution", a rural uprising in the late 1800s and other more detailed events.

[Dave]

What about something like N 50 W 35?

[Zagadka]

What about something like N 50 W 35?

Isn't that about where I put it? Seems agreeable (after a quick look at the map).

[Thunderhawk]

N 50 W 35

A land area about twice Ireland

=> that would be smack in the northern branch of the gulf stream. The Islands would be nice climactically, but I suspect it would strongly affect the gulf stream such that Iceland and GB would be colder..
or we can ignore that.

[Fasces]

Right now it's about the size of England, Wales, and Scotland.