[ingliz]

The "Minority" vote being passed by 27 votes to 9

Ayes:

ingliz, Holt, Donald, HoniSoit, Thunderhawk, Subversive Rob, The Immortal Goon, Nattering Nabob, Okonkwo, Fallen Raptor, dilpill, psyche, Potemkin, MB, Vigil of Reason, VforVendetta, Infidelis, Russian Guy, Demosthenes, Gnote, Red Army, albionfagan, Ombrageux, Mahzi, Vladimir, Gletkin, Zyx

Nays:

Doomhammer, Dave, Dr.House, peter co, Korimyr the Rat, Fasces, Vanasalus, Oxymoron, Cheesecake Marmalade

The PoFo Parliament is now in session; 08.30 Central European Time, this day, Friday the 24th April 2009

The RF/SN-THP being the only grouping ready to form a Government is seated on the Government benches. The first business of the chamber is to ratify a Constitution, appoint a Head of State, and elect the Clerk and Speaker.

The Right Honourable HoniSoit, Parliamentary Leader of the RF/SN-THP Alliance:

I suggest we make some amendments to Clausewitz's interim Constitution.

Below are my suggestions:

Article 1. Elections

1. The Clerk of the Parliament must administer a responsible election and its results must be tabulated and certified by the Clerk no more than 2 days after the preceding election's results were certified.
2. A simple majority in Parliament has the power to dissolve the government, demand a new election, and/or constitute a new government. However, if it is going to be a minority government we probably should make it 66%
3. Elections shall be conducted, tabulated, and certified by the Clerk of the Parliament, who will be designated by any successful act that forms a government.

Article 2. Convention of Parliament

1. Parliament will constitute the number of votes cast and seats in a single house apportioned by the D'Hondt method according to the results certified by the Clerk of the Parliament. I still maintain the number of seats in the parliament should be identical to the number of overall votes; it would make voting and counting much less complex
2. Each voter should be entitled to one seat; however, if expicitly indicated by the MP their seat can be transferred to the party leader if they are inactive at the time of voting
3.Only 'spare' seats should be in the gift of Party Leaders if we keep a 100 seat parliament
4. All current Clerks of the Parliament shall maintain, certify, and report the assignment of seats from the parties in good faith.
5. Once the Clerk of the Parliament certifies that a seat has been assigned an MP, that seat may not be estranged from that MP until the next general election conducted by the Clerk of the Parliament, except by the express and public consent of the MP (certified by the Clerk of the Parliament), or by a 2/3 vote of the Parliament to impeach that MP.
6. This document guarantees no relief or arbitration for disputes within parties. Relief and arbitration would need to be sought through further Acts of Parliament and amendments to this document.

Article 3. Legislation

1. A vote of confidence can only be called on legislation introduced by the Government although private member's bills may be introduced by any MP they have no constitutional significance. Every piece of legislation will be a separate thread.
2. Any piece of legislation that receives more than 1/2 the votes of the Parliament becomes the law of the land.
3. Votes will be placed in the thread as for, against, or (optionally) abstain. Abstaining votes are not counted
4. Seats assigned to the party leader those not seats assigned to members of his party to vote with the party leader.
5. MPs (that is, people assigned seats in Parliament) have the right to break with their party leader if they so choose over a piece of legislation.
6. Legislation may be withdrawn by its author, in which case no further votes on that legislation are recognized.
7. No further votes will be recognized on any legislative thread originating with a previous elected parliament after the election that followed it has been certified by the Clerk of the Parliament. This means that all pending legislation dies when election results are certified.
8. Amendments to this document must receive more than 2/3 of the votes in Parliament to become law.
9. Laws inconsistent with this document (and any successful amendments to it) are prima facie invalid as inconsistent with the basic law of the nation, but this document guarantees no relief or arbitration if a law is challenged on a constitutional basis. The Parliament may ordain and empower bodies which have the power to grant relief and arbitration in disputes as to the constitutionality of legislation .

Article 4. Formation of Government

1.The government is to be formed by the largest grouping with a single-platform and single-leadership organisation in Parliament. At any time, a piece of legislation may be introduced by the Prime Minister, a member of the ruling Party or grouping elected to that position by members of that ruling Party or grouping. This legislation, like any legislation, will succeed if it receives the support of more than 1/2 of the members of Parliament. The first bill introduced by a new government is always a vote of confidence.
2. The government will designate, at a minimum, a Prime Minister and a Clerk of the Parliament. The government may designate as many other ministers as it likes. Those ministers will have no power to introduce legislation pertaining to their portfolio, but are at liberty to interpret the legislation passed by Parliament.
3. The first Clerk of the Parliament is The Right Honourable ingliz of the SN(R)RF. The first Parliament will be convened upon the moment of his certification of the election results.

My suggestions:

Elections should be held every month.

Discuss, amend and ratify............

[Fasces]

This is a constitutionally illegal government that will not be recognized by the People of PoFo. The Grand Coalition has just finished talks, and will be ready to be seated soon. This attempted coup is a highly disgusting and highly anti-democratic attempt by the far-left to take control a nation that has already rejected them.

It has assumed power unilaterally, without taking into account Article 4.1.

[ingliz]

This has been voted on in the "minority" thread, 27 - 9, and seeing as the interim, unilaterally imposed by the CA, Constitution is now suspended awaiting the ratification of a document democratically arrived at by this chamber I don't see anything unconstitutional going on here. If the far right wish to keep the flawed CA stopgap introduce amendments to the discussion brief prepared by the Prime Minister and let there be a vote when everyone has had a chance to have their say. I had hoped this could be done as quickly as Wednesday but your friends on the other side of the House seem to be in no rush to sort this out.

[Donna]

I completely reject and do not acknowledge ingliz's illegal coup government. As I've warned parliament in the past, the Bolsheviks cannot trusted to democratically participate.

[dilpill]

This government is unconstitutional even according to your own proposed constitution.

[ingliz]

Our new "constitution" is much more democratic than yours, it gives power to the MP and not the nomenklatura. Also we won a 'free' vote in this chamber authorising us to do this, the parliament was technically convened as soon as Dan certified the election result, and you were one of those who voted in favour, three times but we only counted the one. I am sorry if your friends on the other side of the House are more concerned with squabbling amongst themselves than running the country. But all they have to do is ratify a constitution, the old one is suspended awaiting the new document. vote down our first piece of legislation and form a government. Like I said if we all work together that is achievable by this time next week.

dilpill:

Our document is not a constitution but a discussion brief

[dilpill]

We weren't voting on your minority government. We were voting on if we thought minority governments should be allowed. That vote didn't even have an amendment to pass, so any minority government that forms before that happens would be invalid.

Our new constitution is much more democratic than yours, it gives power to the MP and not the nomenklatura.

Why shouldn't parties decide this for themselves?
If the individual party members don't like the rules their party leader decides on, they can just break off to be independents or form their own parties.

[Fasces]

That vote is illegitimate, as it did not even establish a quorum among voting representatives. Of the 27 affirmative votes, it should also be pointed out, no less than 17 were from the SN/RF/THP. The rest were predominately SLD and PUC-L. Of the right-wing, only 1 affirmative vote was counted.

This is a clear attempt by leftists, ignoring basic parliamentary procedure, to launch a coup of our nation.

Only 36% of elected representatives voted. For any legislation to pass, at least 50% of representatives must vote.

This aside, this government is unconstitutional according to Article 4.1 of all constitutions, including the currently proposed one by the illegitimate government. Before you form a government, you must receive a 51% vote by parliament. Your failure to do this, Ingliz, shows your own disregard for proper procedure, and further invalidates this government's existence.

Ingliz, you are a tyrant and a traitor.

[HoniSoit]

This is a clear attempt by leftists, ignoring basic parliamentary procedure, to launch a coup of our nation.

Or it could mean the members in SN-RF and THP are highly committed, thus deserving to form the government. Why gives the right to form government to parties whose majority of members don't even bother to vote?

this government is unconstitutional

The issue of unconstitutionality doesn't arise as it is not yet ratified yet.

[ingliz]

That is open to interpretation as over 50% of the MPs present in the chamber voted in favour of the RF/SN-THP forming a government; and there is no mention of a quorum in the now defunct interim document. Is it my fault you collect your generous allowances but cannot be bothered to turn up to vote.

[Fasces]

Quorum is basic parliamentary procedure. It cannot be ignored.

You have 36 seats, and 17 of your party members voted. You yourselves had no majority.

[HoniSoit]

You have 36 seats, and 17 of your party members voted. You yourselves had no majority.

If you simply wish to sabotage PoFo parliament, just say it.

Otherwise, it just highlights the impotence of your own party to create any stable and mature alliance.

[Vladimir]

I don't recall us having turnout barriers

[Fasces]

Regardless, this government was not convened according to the Consitution, Article 4.1 which states:

. At any time, a piece of legislation may be introduced by a Party Leader or MP which forms a government. This legislation, like any legislation, will succeed if it receives the support of more than 1/2 of the members of Parliament.

You have done no such thing. This government is illegal, unilateral, and will not be recognized.

[Brio]

Why gives the right to form government to parties whose majority of members don't even bother to vote?

Indeed. Furthermore such party's leader/president has not been active since late December. How do you know Manuel even approves of your defacto leadership Fasces?

[Fasces]

PoP business. We conduct our votes privately.

[Adrien]

Quorum is basic parliamentary procedure. It cannot be ignored.

I don't mean to cite a foreign country, especially that one, as an example, but recent events have shown France's National Assembly functions without a quorum.

[Fasces]

Regardless of the fact, Article 4.1 of the Constitution was not followed, and this government is illegal for that reason.

[Vladimir]

This isn't a ratified consitution and so doesn't apply. We can amend it later

[Fasces]

The previous constitution, which was ratified by similar means as the rule allowing minority governments, has the same Article.

If you allow the minority government to form, you also acknowledge that constitution. If you do not recognize the constitution, then there is no reason to recognize the legitimacy of minority governments.

To do otherwise is nothing less than a coup by the reds.