[ingliz]

Parliament is now in session

Speaker & MP - Demosthenes

Clerk of the House - ingliz

Prime Minister and Minister for Foreign Affairs - HoniSoit

Treasury: Brio
Attorney General: Subversive Rob
Defence: FallenRaptor
Education: MistyTiger
Culture, Heritage and the Arts: Potemkin
Labour and Industrial Relations: ingliz
Environment and Energy: Zagadka
Trade and Finance: Holt
Home Affairs: Vladimir
Health: Gnote
Science and Technology: Vera Politica
Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government: Zyx

Technically, the appointment of Demosthenes as Speaker means his seat is vacant, an SN/RF candidate should be co-opted to take his seat, and he cannot retain his post as Minister for Foreign Affairs but due to 'inactivity' the GM Council has agreed to allow Demo his vote and the post of Deputy Minister, Honi exercising a proxy vote if there are any conflicts of interest.

According to custom if a vote is tied the Speaker votes with the Government.

First business:

A Green Paper on "Proposed changes in Maritime Defence Policy"

The Navy:

We are an island nation and need a navy.

I see it as a defensive force made up mostly of the new generation of anti-ship/attack diesel electric submarines, 2 or 3 frigates, corvettes, patrol boats, mine sweepers/mine layers and support vessels with a small force of marines. I do not see the need for a 'blue water' navy. I envisage a standing force of approx 12,000 men with the capabilty of mobilising a 20,000 man reserve.

The 'minimum' Pofo Navy

Naval warfare flotillas capable of monitoring sea areas, maritime traffic and fisheries, and of engaging surface and underwater targets both in coastal waters and on the open sea, in addition to possessing a mine clearance capability.

Two submarine flotillas capable of the covert monitoring of sea areas, intelligence gathering and the engagement of both underwater and surface targets.

Two amphibious battalions capable of monitoring coastal and inshore areas and of engaging both surface and underwater targets.

Two naval bases with two maritime base battalions and one maritime surveillance and information battalion capable of monitoring Pofo territorial waters and supporting other units with food and other supplies.

Command and control unit for the coordination and command of forces composed of different units.


Comments, suggestions, discussion.....?

[Donna]

Why does Zyx have such incredible power? What did he make you do?

Other than that, I guess this is it. Good luck, but don't try anything too radical off the bat. Butter us up for that kind of stuff.

[Cartertonian]

We are an island nation and need a navy.

No shit, Sherlock!

I see it as a defensive force...I do not see the need for a 'blue water' navy.

That's fine if we are adopting an isloationist, militarily neutral foreign policy, but the thing to remember about military procurement is that it is better to have capability you don't routinely need than to have to try and enhance capability in unanticipated times of crisis.

I wouldn't suggest you need carriers and extensive fleets of missile-launching platforms in any numbers, etc, but if you are going to go with the model you suggested, particularly at the force levels you put forward, you will need to look very closely at a fully integrated Joint Operational Command, that will allow you to bring to bear air and land assets as required, should a more offensively-defensive posture be required or, for that matter, if (in the aforementioned category of unanticipated crisis) actual power-projection is required. Thus, a modest 'blue-water' capability, rather than simply a littoral defence force configuration, may need to be contemplated.

Comments, suggestions, discussion.....?

Before this bill is adequately discussed it would perhaps be prudent to provide a precis of PoFo foreign policy and some sort of coherent threat analysis from a national security perspective.

[ingliz]

cartertonian:

Our only likely threat is the US, we threw them out; our foreign policy is armed neutrality. A joint capability is envisaged see the tiny clause at the end.

Given our budgetary constraints, the vunerability of surface assets and that combined with the threat assessment I don't see any point in investing in a 'blue water' surface fleet but if you can convince me one is necessary......

ps. At present we do have a 'blue water" force projection capability with an ageing surface fleet but if we ever found ourselves in a "hot" war how long would we keep it? It is a paper tiger.

[Cartertonian]

Our only likely threat is the US

In that case, we don't stand a snowflake's chance in Hell...unless we invest heavily in intelligence, counter-intelligence, cyber-warfare and counter-CBRN.

we threw them out

Therefore, whatever their overt posturing, in no way will they conduct themselves in such a manner as to show respect for our 'neutrality'. Pentagon planning offices will have shelves groaning with folders detailing ever aspect of the invasion and subjugation plan for our fair nation.

...how're you coming along with our emigration policy?

[Truth-a-naut]

What are the names of the ships. This is very important to me, they must have good names.

[ingliz]

Of course we don't stand a "snowflake's chance in Hell" but the proposed 'over investment' in submarine forces and sophisticated remote/sensor activated minefields should, at least, make it an expensive adventure for the US fleet.

If the day ever came and our subs could take a carrier down, our minefields disable an SSN, I would be very happy.

The U.S. cannot detect non-nuclear submarines when they're operating on battery, it's very difficult to find them, almost impossible in coastal operations, and that's where we're going to be in the future.

The Gotland class attack submarines of the Swedish Navy are modern diesel-electric submarines. They are the first submarines in the world to feature a Stirling engine air-independent propulsion (AIP) system, which extends their underwater endurance from a few days to about a month. This capability has previously only been available with nuclear powered submarines.

On land we will favour small unit 'hit and run' asymmetric warfare tactics with only a small regular force and a large well trained and well equipped local militia.

But I doubt they would invade; a dirty tricks political destabilisation operation is more their style when dealing with Western governments they dislike.

ps.

No shit, Sherlock!

It was thought at the time that PoFo was landlocked, the decision to make it an island had only just been taken.

[Zyx]

How are our requirements for joining NATO or the EU?

We may be able to bypass the monies for an excessive military, if we can accelerate to the minimum requirements of an alliance.

How are our relations with France or England? Do we have a favorite?

I feel like we are a young United States breaking from England, yet we're a young Republic of Pofo breaking from the United States.

[Demosthenes]

Our platform was originally NOT to join NATO or the EU, or so I had thought. Though the EU might have some long term benfits that offset some of the negatives. We certainly don't want to join a military alliance run by our former dictator's benefactors.

My personal choice would be to carry out our oil purchases in Euro, Attempt to begin relations with China and Latin America, and of course to continue our associtation with the Scandanavians. Beyond that, again IMO, we should keep the rest of the Europians at arms length, but not take an overtly hostile position either.

[Zyx]

Sorry. Umm . . . I didn't say anything.

I guess we'll need a military.

We should get to arming the people, as well.

I mean, for the sake of not being overruled by the U.S.

What was our conflict like? Casualties and so forth?

Does the U.S. at least recognize us? The UN?

[ingliz]

Both the US and the UN recognise us.

There were no casualties as we had no dispute with the US. Once they saw the writing was on the wall they unilaterally withdrew their military advisers and aid to the Ryan regime keeping themselves to themselves in the US naval base at New Clauswitz. The lease on the New Clauswitz naval facility ran out and was not renewed. In a fit of pique the US were told by Ryan their presence was no longer required.

Still militarily overstretched by the "War on Terror" and unwilling to get embroiled in the politics of yet another bloody insurgency they acquiesced leaving much behind but I am sure they didn't expect a 'socialist', Marxist Leninist/Anarchist, Party to triumph in the first democratic elections.

The US are not happy but as long as we keep selling them the black gold I doubt they will attack us militarily.

[FallenRaptor]

As minister of defense, I want access to all information on the military, foreign bases that exist in PoFo, and what military involvement we have abroad. Otherwise, I approve of Ingliz's proposals.

[Vladimir]

As minister of the interior I assume I preside broadly over security, police, law enforcement, prisons, courts?
In that case I must also ask to transfer the Local Government to my ministry from Zyx's (I see no logical reason for this to be under Zyx's ministry). In fact I don't see why we should be two separate ministries either....

Also, as a suggestion Environment and Energy and Science and Technology minis can be merged into the ministry of industry and internal commerce

[Zagadka]

Zyx, our policy plans overlap somewhat in the development of rail and public transit. If we could have a private discussion, I think it would benefit our causes.

[Figlio di Moros]

Ingliz, I don't see us having to worry about the United States; the Obama administration had cut military funding, particularly to their Navy, and we're an english-speaking nation anyways. Now, if we were a little darker and spoke arabic, we might have to worry, but I'd say we're safe from American aggression. I agree we need to focus on a coastal navy; however, I would suggest fuel stacks instead of typical diesel engines. While they're both quiet, a hydrogen engine wouldn't have to burn our air supply and would have a more tactical advantage. What designs do you intend to base our frigate, corvette, and patrol boats off of?

I'm not sure 12,000 men will be enough, and I would certainly argue that we can't underestimate elite forces, particularly with a small navy. Considering how much coast we have compared to land, I'd argue for marines to be our standing land forces and particularly focus on on other amphibious special forces.

It could be of more particular importance, also, to consider the use of CB's for the building of infrastructure.

[Zagadka]

Regarding the naval issue, it also depends greatly on if we join NATO or another defense pact. If we are, we really don't need much more than a coast guard and a small active-duty force that can rapidly deploy in the European fashion. We could use a national guard to intervene in domestic problems, be it a revolution or a natural disaster. To save further money, we need to basically pick up where other nations are ditching equipment, and use existing technology. This is not long term, but to get up and running while saving money, and an evaluation of the effectiveness would be carried out.

[MistyTiger]

How many schools and colleges do we have from which to recruit able-bodied men? Is there a mandatory draft or can they just volunteer to serve?

[Thunderhawk]

Militarily, dont we have a dictator's legacy of military excess to deal with?

[Holt]

Militarily, dont we have a dictator's legacy of military excess to deal with?

I would suggest that we are currently in the process of a large-scale demilitarisation, while modernising and adapting the smaller, defensive military to better suit our conditions. Just because the Ryan Government was likely excessive, doesn't mean the existing military is effective or appropriate to meet contemporary needs. Many strategic fortifications, ports and airstrips were destroyed in the civil war. Most of Thomas Ryan's large purchases probably happened in the '80s and significant hardware has become obsolete. Even the parts of the defense budget that we don't plan to slash require an evaluation of their allocation.

[Dr House]

Militarily, dont we have a dictator's legacy of military excess to deal with?

Indeed. We have avery large standing army and a bloated military budget. The appropriations process is entirely broken however, and most of the money is simply pocketed outright by military officers and whatnot. The actual military equipment and infrastructure is outdated and in a state of deep disrepair.