[Red Barn]

Eran's stats are from 2009.

Just saying.

[Baff]

Reading this post, it would seem that the poor people hate the rich more than vice versa. ..

This.
A certain bad element amongst the poor are not grateful for the charity they receive.
In fact the thought of being in need of charity belittles them, so they chose to rationalise it in different way. As their dues. As what is owed to them.
Thus anyone who seeks not to give them what they feel they are owed, must clearly hate them. Must be going out of their way to make their lives worse.


They demonise the rich to justify stealing from them instead of producing enough for themselves.
They bite the hand that feeds them.

People who keep horses carry mints in their pockest to treat and reward their mounts.
If each time you walk past it's field you fed your horse a treat (because you love it), that horse will become expectant on recieving these gifts.

Shoud you then walk past the horse without feeding it a gift, (becuase you don't have any today) it will bite you to communicate to you that it wants a mint and was expecting one.

In order to train that horse not to randomly bite people, the culture of expectancy has to be broken. We do this by reducing the amount of times we give the horse mints and now only reward it in return for extra special behaviours.
Presumably at this point your horse is convinced you hate him too.

[grassroots1]

Where do you get this conception from? Are you basing this assessment off personal experience?

[Negotiator]

Uh, these rich dont literally "hate" poor people - they actually fear them.

All wealth is originated by work and natural ressources. So in order to get rich, you have to gain control over work and/or natural ressources and expoit them.

Thus the rich know that in order to stay rich, they have to exploit the poor further, and fear that one day the poor might realize that and fight back.

The only other way to get rich is to be creative, being an artist or an inventor. People like Paul McCartney or J. K. Rowling did that. A lot of Hollywood actors manage it. However, the mass of artists, many of them very talented, do not manage it.

Even so, even the most successful of artists apparently havent managed to be billionaires. Yet, anyway. The richest of the people world wide are all born rich and most of their children and the childrens children will be rich as well as their fathers and their fathers fathers have been.

And inventors ? When a market is new and young, inventors have a chance. People like Edinson and Siemens could found large companies and new dynasties of rich people. Nowadays its people like Bill Gates. But once a market is under control, its stuck. And Bill Gates was definitely far from being the most inventive computer program designer. The success of Microsoft was based on practices like adhesion contracts, not on superiority of their computer programs.

[Baff]

Where do you get this conception from? Are you basing this assessment off personal experience?

Of keeping horses or of people with a culture of expectancy?

I have personal experience of both.
I don't have internet links (or even the desire) to prove this to anyone of course.

[Baff]

Even so, even the most successful of artists apparently havent managed to be billionaires. Yet, anyway. The richest of the people world wide are all born rich and most of their children and the childrens children will be rich as well as their fathers and their fathers fathers have been.

There is an old adage that I believe contains some wisdom.

The first generation makes it, the second generation maintains it and the third generation blows it.

[grassroots1]

I have personal experience of both.

You have personal experience of a "culture of expectancy?" Is that all? Personal experience is inherently limited, and yet you feel you're justified in making generalizations like these?

They demonise the rich to justify stealing from them instead of producing enough for themselves.
They bite the hand that feeds them.

And then use some abstract metaphor of a horse to justify it? How absurd... these people aren't animals or small children, they're human beings. If we don't provide an opportunity as a society for them to succeed and have a decent education, then what the hell do you expect? I'm tired of this ridiculous macho individualism. Rampant on the internet among cowards.

[Baff]

You have personal experience of a "culture of expectancy?" Is that all? Personal experience is inherently limited, and yet you feel you're justified in making generalizations like these?


And then use some abstract metaphor of a horse to justify it? How absurd... these people aren't animals or small children, they're human beings. If we don't provide an opportunity as a society for them to succeed and have a decent education, then what the hell do you expect? I'm tired of this ridiculous macho individualism. Rampant on the internet among cowards.

Animal nature and human nature are in many circumstances the same. Similar personality traits can be common between species just as they can be between races.

Personal experience gives everybody an insight into human nature.
All you need to do is see the same pattern repeating so many times before you can isolate the pattern itself.


I don't come from a society that does not provide decent education and opportunities for it's people to succeed. (Or it's horses for that matter). Far from it. I come from a society that gives the among best education and opportunities the world has to offer.
So that's not a viable excuse for blind hatred round here. Sorry.
Claiming that to be the case in my county would just make you sound ungrateful and ridiculous.

[grassroots1]

Personal experience gives everybody an insight into human nature.

I'll tell you my personal experience. If you want to see a "culture of expectancy," look at the privileged people in society.

[PapaBull]

I'll tell you my personal experience. If you want to see a "culture of expectancy," look at the privileged people in society.

what comes first, the chicken or the egg? Do people become "privileged" because they've come to expect success in their undertakings or do people come to expect success in their undertakings merely because they're privileged? Who are "the privileged" except the wealthy? The wealthy got that way through action, so seriously.... why shouldn't they have great expectations? They make things happen. I think anyone that becomes industrious and sets out with great expectations has a very good chance of being successful. Set about without an expectant attitude and you're so totally screwed you might as well not get out of bed. "You won't buy what I have to sell, will you?"... that attitude and sales pitch won't get you far.

[grassroots1]

The wealthy got that way through action, so seriously.... why shouldn't they have great expectations? They make things happen.

I grew up in a relatively wealthy household. I didn't get that way through action. My parents got that way through action, and they benefited from their parents situation, etc., even if that's only limited to being born in a country that is prosperous like the United States. I don't know why there's so much pride from people who have created literally nothing.

Set about without an expectant attitude and you're so totally screwed you might as well not get out of bed. "You won't buy what I have to sell, will you?"... that attitude and sales pitch won't get you far.

I agree with that but it doesn't mean that individuals can easily overcome systemic problems like a decline in the economy and mass unemployment.

[jimjam]

Personal experience gives everybody an insight into human nature.
All you need to do is see the same pattern repeating so many times before you can isolate the pattern itself

Agreed. A breif study of history will show that human nature is controlled over and over again by simple blind greed. Greed at the highest levels of government/business/wall street is pretty much taken as the norm. Unfortunately periodic epidemics of greed will take our economy, and with it socieety at large, to the brink of destruction. Witness the 1870's, 1930's and today.

[Eran]

Unfortunately periodic epidemics of greed will take our economy

I agree that greed (or, more accurately and neutrally, "self interest") dominates human nature and behaviour.

This tendency doesn't come and go in "periodic epidemics". It is ever-present. Its manifestation, however, depends much on context - social, economic, political, etc.

Greed, btw, is not limited to the "highest levels" of anything. It is present amongst all of us.

The beauty of Capitalism is that in its clean form (i.e. uncorrupted by politics), it channels self interest into helping others. In fact, Capitalism is the only economic system in which self interest is so channelled.

[jimjam]

I agree that greed (or, more accurately and neutrally, "self interest") dominates human nature and behaviour.

This tendency doesn't come and go in "periodic epidemics". It is ever-present. Its manifestation, however, depends much on context - social, economic, political, etc.

Greed is an interesting study. I beleive it lurks in all. I have certainly seen it in myself. It is very powerful. I wonder sometimes why it has the power it has. A pathetic response to deny fear of death? I don't know. But it sure as hell is making a mess of planet earth.