[Galoredk]

Reading this post, it would seem that the poor people hate the rich more than vice versa.

I make around 100k a year. We have progressive tax here, but even so I am among the 10% wealthiest in my country. Done that make me rich? I'm not sure.

I do however hate poor people who will not admit that they have had an equal opportunity to succeed.
Especially in my country where you get paid to educate yourself and you have free healthcare. but even so, you still have poo people complaining and wanting more of my hard earned salary. A salary I have been working on getting since I started doing mtpy homework in prep school while the rest skipped class and didn't give a fuck.
Since I went through high school while they did nothing but earned easy money as full time unskilled labourers instead of educating themselves. since I chose to work hard to get. High enough grade avg. To get me to business school, while they were still making more money than me.

So, now that I finall begin to harvest the fruits if 25+ years of hard work to bring my lifeto a place where I finally can cash in on all the shit I had to swim through, I have to pay most of it to the poor and lazy bastards. Despite that they chose this life themselves and couldn't give a fuck about education, didn't want to do the work to get a better income. Now they complain, because they think it is unfair that they cannot get even more of my hard earned money, even though they do absolutely nothing to deserve it.

Yeah, you could say I hate those kinds of poor people..

[grassroots1]

Do you live in America, Galored? I'd guess that's not the case. Given that this is a thread specifically about American politics, I'm not sure why you'd share your opinion in support of one side or the other.

[Dave]

Galoredk is Danish.

[Galoredk]

I am Danish. I shared my opinion because I wanted to tell yo that no matter how much luxury you basically give to poor people for free, they will always complain. If you give tax breaks to everyone, they complain that the rich makes mor money on tax breaks. How can anyone complain about their financial situation if they hav every opportunity to educate themselves for free. The most ridiculous complainers are the government employees who work with the elderly 25 hours a week and complain that their work is too hard. Seriously, change your fuckin job, start working out instead of being a fatass who cannot do the job and don't pick a low wage education if your wage is so important.

Sorry, this kind of pathetic attitude towards your own success is pissing me off.

[grassroots1]

My own success? You mean my family's success. I had nothing to do with that. Zero. I hold no pride in my family's wealth because I don't think there's any reason to. I'm not talking about "luxury" here, I'm talking about basics like health care and education. There are certain things that are missing in America and could greatly improve the nation as a whole, I believe. A well-funded universal educational system. Universal health care.

And I'll agree with you to an extent that we should place more emphasis on personal responsibility and not err entirely on the side of making excuses for others. However those social, political, and economic analyses also have merit and I think there is a balance there.

[Eran]

I wanted to tell yo that no matter how much luxury you basically give to poor people for free, they will always complain.

Galoredk's contribution from the land of social safety-nets and the public provision of many of life's needs is invaluable.

A well-funded universal educational system.

What criterion would you suggest to find out whether a universal educational system is sufficiently-well funded or not?

It seems to me that the only criterion today is that if a system is failing, it must be under-funded.

Is that your view too?

[Rei Murasame]

I am Danish. I shared my opinion because I wanted to tell yo that no matter how much luxury you basically give to poor people for free, they will always complain.

Ah, but do remind us what the history of Denmark's labour-industrial relation has been since, let's say 1975 until about 1995? I'm only asking because I have a memory of there being some historical reasons behind why the Danish public has that sentiment.

Galoredk's contribution from the land of social safety-nets and the public provision of many of life's needs is invaluable.

But don't forget to cross-examine him on European history. Given what we were taught about Denmark, there's no way I would take that statement at face value without probing a little, since I am sure that Denmark is one of the countries that actually did not find an industrial-labour compromise, and the state then knocked down labour repeatedly.

So the people who are whining now, may well be the people who grew up during that time and are 'set in their ways'. You see what I mean? It's never so simple as libertarians think it is.

But we'll see what Galoredk says. My memory has hopefully not failed me here.

[Rugoz]

So, now that I finall begin to harvest the fruits if 25+ years of hard work to bring my lifeto a place where I finally can cash in on all the shit I had to swim through, I have to pay most of it to the poor and lazy bastards.

I see a midlife crisis approaching

Its not too late bro, quit your job and find some work you enjoy. I know its hard to find, but don't give up, I won't either.

[grassroots1]

What criterion would you suggest to find out whether a universal educational system is sufficiently-well funded or not?

It seems to me that the only criterion today is that if a system is failing, it must be under-funded.

Is that your view too?

No there are a great deal of ways to improve the efficiency of these types of state-run systems, I imagine.

[jimjam]

Now they complain, because they think it is unfair that they cannot get even more of my hard earned money, even though they do absolutely nothing to deserve it.

Early in life i noticed the exagerated importance of money. I then resolved to take care of the money problem completely on my own with no help from anyone. I have worked hard and been lucky on that count. I am retired now and part of my retirement is to have as little contact with money as possible. Got a deal for me? Easy money? Not interested! The system is in place. Money comes in and money goes out. Money sucks, it makes people strange and bitter. It crowds pleasing and artistic thoughts from our brains. It is the ultimate drug and certainly is abused.

[Eran]

No there are a great deal of ways to improve the efficiency of these types of state-run systems, I imagine.

In that case, what makes you state that the American educational system is not well-funded?

[grassroots1]

I don't believe I ever said that. I did say that we should increase funding for education in America, because in the short-term this is a good way to ensure lower class sizes and decent teachers. If there's is something wrong with the system in terms of efficiency then that can be dealt with in the long-term, but we shouldn't abandon students now just because we perceive the system to be inefficient.

So in that sense, yes, I guess you could say that the US system is underfunded. 40 students to one teacher is not a good learning environment.

[Eran]

What makes you believe that investing more money in the system will improve educational results?

Is there any evidence for causal relationship between spending on education and educational results?

[grassroots1]

The reason there are 40 student classes is because there is not enough money to hire enough teachers to have small enough class sizes for there to be less than 40 students in the classroom. If more money is put into the system, class sizes will be reduced. There IS a causal link between reduced class sizes and educational quality. So, in effect, yes, there is a causal link between increased spending on education and educational quality. Quite a logical conclusion if you ask me...

[USB]

Rich conservatives hate poor people by way of alleging that they just produce and produce children without planning for their future. They portray poor people as turning their wives into children-factory producing machines caused by idleness, lecherousness, and laziness. You'll be surprised that these conservatives are the very ones who are lecherous in attending sex orgies without concerns whether they get the HIV virus or not. Usually these dirty old men and matrons are the ones soliciting sex in hotels parading themselves in front of call girls and male prostitutes haggling over the money they are going to pay for these one-night stands. I know it. I've been there.

[Eran]

The reason there are 40 student classes is because there is not enough money to hire enough teachers to have small enough class sizes for there to be less than 40 students in the classroom. If more money is put into the system, class sizes will be reduced. There IS a causal link between reduced class sizes and educational quality. So, in effect, yes, there is a causal link between increased spending on education and educational quality. Quite a logical conclusion if you ask me...

The average class size in US public schools is 23.6 (NY Times, marginally-worse than most of Western Europe (with 20 average), but better than Korea, Japan, Israel and the UK.

The lower class size, btw, is in Russia.

So let me ask again - what makes you think that more money will (1) be diverted towards lowering class sizes, as opposed, for example, to increasing teacher pay or adding more bureaucratic layers, and (2) that from a 24 children/class, further reduction in class size will significantly contribute towards educational achievements?

[grassroots1]

(1) be diverted towards lowering class sizes, as opposed, for example, to increasing teacher pay or adding more bureaucratic layers, and (2) that from a 24 children/class, further reduction in class size will significantly contribute towards educational achievements?[/

What I'm saying is that I believe we should increase funding for education in order to specifically reduce class sizes and hire more teachers where that is needed. Average class size may be that low, but in California In past years I've read about multiple examples where districts are functioning with 30 or 40 students to a class. Primarily in schools that educate low-income students. This is an unacceptable situation that more funding for this specific purpose WOULD solve. Lower class sizes are directly related to increased educational quality, this we know for a fact. 40 student classes are unacceptable.

Increasing teacher pay is another goal that I think is required in the long-term, but in the short-term I believe we should prioritize hiring more teachers in order to reduce class sizes.

We're speaking theoretically here, I think it's splitting hairs a bit to ask me how I know that funds will be used for these specific purposes. Of course if I was in any position to wield influence I would make every effort to ensure that they were.

[USB]

To show fairness, I am not asking school boards to peg teachers' salaries to the price indexes. All I am asking is some sort of workers' consciousness on the part of the administration and deans. Please assign them just enough number of classes and enough students. They cannot cope up with the load. Despite of stress, they still can smile and attend to students and their parents with keen enjoyment and interest. A pregnant professor of mine in the Philippines suffered a miscarriage and died because of burdensome assignments. Her husband ended up using her insurance selling rice. He became bankrupt. He had no other means to feed his family. He joined the rebels in the mountain where revolutionary taxes on the rich was used to feed his children. Fair, isn't it?

[Imperial Spaghetti]

To show fairness, I am not asking school boards to peg teachers' salaries to the price indexes. All I am asking is some sort of workers' consciousness on the part of the administration and deans. Please assign them just enough number of classes and enough students. They cannot cope up with the load. Despite of stress, they still can smile and attend to students and their parents with keen enjoyment and interest. A pregnant professor of mine in the Philippines suffered a miscarriage and died because of burdensome assignments. Her husband ended up using her insurance selling rice. He became bankrupt. He had no other means to feed his family. He joined the rebels in the mountain where revolutionary taxes on the rich was used to feed his children. Fair, isn't it?

I'm sorry, but what does this have to do with the conservatives hating poor people?

[sans-culotte]

^ That is a bot, which I believe had the name ihofidel in its previous incarnation.