[Ned Lud]

If you want "worker" control then why root for socialism or communism at all? Capitalism is about private (non-gov) enterprise, ie: civilians. Socialism is all about nationalising and centralising everything, ie: putting more control in the hands of government and usually without any democratic influence either.

You are a turkey voting for Christmas.

Socialism is about the control of society by its vast majority, those who do the work. Capitalism is about stealing from them, as you know. Capitalism depends totally on the State, without which it wouldn't last five minutes.

[SolarCross]

ocialism is about the control of society by its vast majority, those who do the work. Capitalism is about stealing from them, as you know. Capitalism depends totally on the State, without which it wouldn't last five minutes.

That's how they sell it to you but it is a lie as witnessed by every socialist regime ever from USSR through Nazi Germany to Castro's Cuba. Maybe you shouldn't be quite so gullible?

Capitalism, civilians, are soft and defenceless so yes they cannot pursue their peaceful commerce without the protection of a soldiery. Absent the protection of a soldiery everyone must be a pirate predator or be dead, this is the state of nature or anarchy as the greeks call it, and under such conditions it is doubtful much if any civilian commerce can survive, least of all very advanced civilian commerce such as we call "capitalism", mass producing factories and mass distribution networks.

A wise soldiery however will form symbiotic relationship with civilians, the civilians produce and the soldiery protect. Socialism is where a fundamentalist strain of soldiery turn cancerous eating alive the civilians and all their craft, leaving nothing but a supersized and insane state. That is just how things are, as history shows.

[RhetoricThug]

This is what they want: Inclusive Totalitarianism

Xi urges BRICS grouping to push for more 'just' international order
“Some countries have become more inward-looking, and their desire to participate in global development cooperation has decreased.”
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin ... SKCN1BG07R

China’s Crackdown on Digital Currency: What It Means for Bitcoin
The People’s Bank of China said on its website Monday that it had completed investigations into ICOs, and will strictly punish offerings in the future while penalizing legal violations in ones already completed. The regulator said that those who have already raised money must provide refunds.
http://fortune.com/2017/09/05/china-bitcoin-ban-icos/

China rewrites history with new censorship drive
“Many of those who teach the real history have been sacked or punished,” said Mr Zhang. “No one dares to do research on social movements and most spend their time researching Xi’s ideas and Marxism-Leninism.”
https://www.ft.com/content/4ffac53e-8ee ... c17942ba93

China doubles down on real-name registration laws, forbidding anonymous online posts

While China has issued various rules requiring online real-name registration for years, the CAC’s new regulations are another sign that the government is becoming increasingly stringent about censorship. For example, using VPNs to access blocked sites like Facebook and Twitter was relatively easy until earlier this year when the government began a crackdown that many observers believe is much more serious than previous attempts to enforce the ban.

As The Diplomat notes, China is taking a multi-pronged approach as it doubles down on censorship, placing more pressure on international publishers as well.
https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/27/china ... ine-posts/

[Ned Lud]

That's how they sell it to you but it is a lie as witnessed by every socialist regime ever from USSR through Nazi Germany to Castro's Cuba. Maybe you shouldn't be quite so gullible?

Capitalism, civilians, are soft and defenceless so yes they cannot pursue their peaceful commerce without the protection of a soldiery. Absent the protection of a soldiery everyone must be a pirate predator or be dead, this is the state of nature or anarchy as the greeks call it, and under such conditions it is doubtful much if any civilian commerce can survive, least of all very advanced civilian commerce such as we call "capitalism", mass producing factories and mass distribution networks.

A wise soldiery however will form symbiotic relationship with civilians, the civilians produce and the soldiery protect. Socialism is where a fundamentalist strain of soldiery turn cancerous eating alive the civilians and all their craft, leaving nothing but a supersized and insane state. That is just how things are, as history shows.

Aren't you silly! As you know, capitalism in crisis adopts aliases, like any other crook. If you called yourself Albert Einstein, would that be a reason for the rest of us to denounce Einstein as a right-wing thicko? Socialism is, and always has been, the rule of the working class, which will liberate humanity finally. Anything else is footling by clowns.

[SolarCross]

Aren't you silly! As you know, capitalism in crisis adopts aliases, like any other crook. If you called yourself Albert Einstein, would that be a reason for the rest of us to denounce Einstein as a right-wing thicko? Socialism is, and always has been, the rule of the working class, which will liberate humanity finally. Anything else is footling by clowns.

Meh, I have been known to be silly, but at least I am sane.

[Ned Lud]

Meh, I have been known to be silly, but at least I am sane.

Any evidence for that claim? I've seen none here.

[Hindsite]

Did the workers control it? Did they buggery. It was a big, inefficient firm in the world capitalist market, as you know.

If the workers control it, they would just stop working and collect welfare from the state. Then the state gets so far in debt that it is destroyed. That is the eventual fate of socialism and communism.

[Ned Lud]

Meh, I have been known to be silly, but at least I am sane.

If you have been brought to believe that you are much sillier than I thought, nutter.

[Ned Lud]

If the workers control it, they would just stop working and collect welfare from the state. Then the state gets so far in debt that it is destroyed. That is the eventual fate of socialism and communism.

Don't pretend to be quarter-witted - stick to half. You think because the mugs accept your thieving they are stupid. Not that stupid, kiddiewinks!

[Truth To Power]

You think because the mugs accept your thieving they are stupid. Not that stupid, kiddiewinks!

They are stupid enough to go along with the false choice between socialist and capitalist thieving. Socialists pretend capital is land to justify stealing capital; capitalists pretend land is capital to justify stealing land. Honest, intelligent people know that land and capital are different.

[Hindsite]

Don't pretend to be quarter-witted - stick to half. You think because the mugs accept your thieving they are stupid. Not that stupid, kiddiewinks!

If you think socialism or communism is better that capitalism, then you are the nutter. Socialists and communists are the thieves.

Capitalist want you to be able to keep more of the money you earn. Socialists and communists want to take more of your money, so they can decide where to spend it. That is the problem with the USA. Our nation is divided with too many opinions that it seems like the socialists and communists are trying to put the nation in a straight jacket with big brother government.

[skinster]

Capitalist want you to be able to keep more of the money you earn.

[Ned Lud]

They are stupid enough to go along with the false choice between socialist and capitalist thieving. Socialists pretend capital is land to justify stealing capital; capitalists pretend land is capital to justify stealing land. Honest, intelligent people know that land and capital are different.

They have been very thoroughly brainwashed, as you know, not to know what socialism is. Heil McCarthy and total lying.

[Ned Lud]

If you think socialism or communism is better that capitalism, then you are the nutter. Socialists and communists are the thieves.

Capitalist want you to be able to keep more of the money you earn. Socialists and communists want to take more of your money, so they can decide where to spend it. That is the problem with the USA. Our nation is divided with too many opinions that it seems like the socialists and communists are trying to put the nation in a straight jacket with big brother government.

Jesus God, aren't you totally bloody brainwashed! Instead of quacking like a drunken McCarthyite duck, READ something. Try Marx's Communist Manifesto if you can get it smuggled in: like Darwin it is more lied about than read, lead alone connected to later scientific development.

[SolarCross]

Jesus God, aren't you totally bloody brainwashed! Instead of quacking like a drunken McCarthyite duck, READ something. Try Marx's Communist Manifesto if you can get it smuggled in: like Darwin it is more lied about than read, lead alone connected to later scientific development.

In the Communist Manifesto Marx demands:

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State: the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal obligation of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries: gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country, by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c., &c.

All ten demands are for the wholesale theft of everything and the enslavement of free labour. Did you read it? Were conscious at the time you read it?

[Pants-of-dog]

Yes, free education for the kids is awful. Enslavement and theft are the first non-emotional words I would use to describe it!

[SolarCross]

So you skip over 9 out 10 points to find the last somewhat defensible. Sure free stuff is great on its own (though it is said there is no such thing as a free lunch), however in the context where the state has a monopoly on the entire economy and also the media this is just more oppression.

[Hindsite]

Jesus God, aren't you totally bloody brainwashed! Instead of quacking like a drunken McCarthyite duck, READ something. Try Marx's Communist Manifesto if you can get it smuggled in: like Darwin it is more lied about than read, lead alone connected to later scientific development.

No thanks, I do not want to be a Marxist or Communist. Praise the Lord. HalleluYah

[mikema63]

The communist manifesto isn't magic, it wont turn you into a marxist just by reading it.

[Pants-of-dog]

So you skip over 9 out 10 points to find the last somewhat defensible. Sure free stuff is great on its own (though it is said there is no such thing as a free lunch), however in the context where the state has a monopoly on the entire economy and also the media this is just more oppression.

Is this an argument?

It seems like you are trying to argue that free education for kids is OPPRESSION because feelings.