[Dubayoo]

I'm just curious if there's an ideology among socialists that covers what I'm going to say here.

Conventionally, there is the argument that human nature doesn't really have free will, so it's ridiculous to assume that people deserve merit for their decisions. Those who act productively aren't really choosing to do so. They just feel compatibly towards production (or what some Christians might argue have a predestined calling to perform said good works). Likewise, those who behave destructively can't really control themselves, so it's ridiculous to hold them personally responsible for their actions.

This seems ridiculous as anyone who lives in reality experiences free will on a regular basis in having self-control. If you deny this, you might as well be an animal or a robot.

However, there is a higher order of consideration when it comes to success.

While people do choose how to act in their lives, people do not choose how others act around them. This isn't fate, but it is still a matter of luck. If you choose to be a productive team player while on a team of other productive teammates, you will achieve productivity. If you choose to be productive while not on said team, you will not. Likewise, people don't choose who to be around when it comes to exchanging productivity such that you could just be unlucky in actually being productive but just in the wrong place or time. Lastly, people don't choose to coexist among others who are abusive, and we also don't choose to exist in jurisdictions where the rule of law can be corrupt. The law isn't always corrupt, but it's a matter of luck in whether you exist where it's pure versus where it's not. Even if you regularly socialize in your community to find out how the law should be upheld, the fact is human nature often doesn't follow-through on proclaimed beliefs. Many people are cowards or manipulators who can't be counted on.

Therefore, while it makes sense to claim people deserve credit or blame for the choice we make in our lives, it does not make sense to claim people should have to deal with factors beyond their control. Society is partially luck driven which is something people should address for the sake of equal opportunity.

Is there any socialist idea which distinguishes between conflating average productivity between decisive and undecisive workers versus average productivity between lucky decisive and unlucky decisive workers?

[Thomasmariel]

I'm no longer a socialist, but just someone who rejects categorization - squatter, deserter, traitor, immigrant, soldier, master, servant, striker, middle class etc

Money and jobs will never co-exist with peace, which makes the solution not necessary socialism but just whatever means the absence of jobs and money

[Victoribus Spolia]

I'm no longer a socialist, but just someone who rejects categorization - squatter, deserter, traitor, immigrant, soldier, master, servant, striker, middle class etc

Money and jobs will never co-exist with peace, which makes the solution not necessary socialism but just whatever means the absence of jobs and money

Any suggestions?

[Thomasmariel]

Any suggestions?

I follow the idea that I don't call people anything that I don't want to be known as

[Victoribus Spolia]

I follow the idea that I don't call people anything that I don't want to be known as

I meant as to how one would go about getting rid of the need for jobs and money.

[Truth To Power]

Money and jobs will never co-exist with peace,

You think there are no jobs or money in Switzerland?

If you were willing to know facts, you would know that jobs and money are both consensual, and thus inherently peaceful.

It is not possible to have a reasoned discussion with people who insist on obvious falsehoods.

[Thomasmariel]

You think there are no jobs or money in Switzerland?

If you were willing to know facts, you would know that jobs and money are both consensual, and thus inherently peaceful.

It is not possible to have a reasoned discussion with people who insist on obvious falsehoods.

If that's true, why do militaries exist?

[Truth To Power]

If that's true, why do militaries exist?

To take other countries' territory and/or prevent other countries' militaries from taking their territory.

[Ganeshas Rat]

This seems ridiculous as anyone who lives in reality experiences free will on a regular basis in having self-control. If you deny this, you might as well be an animal or a robot.

It seems some wrong understanding of determinism (the reason behind absence of free will). People are determined because the actions produced by them are the result of reasons that have their own reasons that have their own reasons etc to the big bang. When you see at a doughnut thinking: 'Oh, a doughnut... I want it! I like doughnuts, it reminds me of childhood' it's not because you thought and decided it. It's because your brain took input [ eyes view, hunger level, memories of childhood] and produced output [ BUY IT ]. Being reverted to a few seconds ago with all conditions the same, eyes seeing the same picture, the same level of glucose in your blood and the same memory you would produce the same decision.

It's like 2 + 4 + 6 = 12. Well, an anti-determinist would say, two, four and six thought and decided to be twelve though it was totally possible they would turn into ten or fourteen. Um, no. The same input always gives the same output.

The only true argument against determinism is a hypothesis of Penrose that a brain uses quantum physics in process of thinking. Quantum mechanics is the only true source of indeterminism in the world, if it affects your thinking then yes, you could be given the same input and produce absolutely different output because the wave function collapsed with totally different result. If it doesn't affect thinking then too bad but people are robots destined to one outcome.