The Myth of Late Stage Capitalism - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14964942
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Late stage capitalism is a Myth.

Its a myth perpetuated by socialists, communists, and marxists - in the hopes that repeating such a notion will bring it into being. Its a near universally known economic principle that faith in the economy is key to driving strong economic growth - and a lack of faith can kill the markets.

People pulling money out of the stock market and withdrawing all they have from the bank, then leads to an economic depression, which allows for authoritarian figures to capitalize on fear and uncertainty. Much like FDR did during the Great Depression, there are plenty who understand the one simple fact of life: the easiest people to manipulate, are fearful and anxious.

And so, the notion of "Late Stage Capitalism" continues to be repeated by left wing psychopaths all over the web, who operate on one of two assumptions. Firstly, its a great fantasy that can be used to make lots of money. Just like doomsday preppers, predicting the downfall of society is a great way to gain attention and sell books. Secondly, some people actually believe it.

They're foolish enough to believe utopia will come when the US economy collapses, and have their fingers crossed waiting for that day. Its sad really, how dreadfully uninformed they are.

Everyone needs something to believe in, even if its a cult of naysayers and disbelievers, everyone needs something to believe in.

Its likely that I'll be receiving hateful comments from people who believe in this communist myth with all their heart, and that's okay. The truth hurts. I don't blame them for their zealous disbelief. I only hope they'll wake up to their folly. Rather than obsess about your pet doomsday scenario, you ought to focus on making the present day a better place. You hear me you crazed socialists?! Altruism! Try it some time!

https://youtu.be/humRElATN2Y
#14964966
The fiction of "late stage capitalism" is well overdue some scrutiny. :up:

In my opinion we can expect some serious economic problems soon from the rampant currency debasement of the world's fiat currencies which additionally will, in no small measure, be exacerbated by the demographic boomer bomb that will dwarf the tremors of 2008 and when the shit does hit the fan you can bet every leftist moron will be shrilly screeching "late stage capitalism" from the roof tops without understanding a thing about what is really going on. Who knows how much political capital they can gain from that?
#14965356
It seems implied that the phrase late stage capitalism implies it near end which I’m not sure in its various uses it always means as such. Its also not clear that it has any relevance to the function of the stock market.

So this asserted criticism of a myth seems a bit incomprehensible to me. Perhaps if the phrase was situated in dome context eith an expressed meaning rather than an implicit association to stock markets, a criticism could make sense.
#14965482
There are those Marxist who are labeled Marxist for the simple transgression of taking Marx seriously as a theorist.

And there are those Marxists who consider Marxist literature, and especially Marx's writings, doctrinal.

Late capitalism has been discussed, and suspected in the literature.

Is it a real thing? Who knows.

Some of the people discussing it have been pining for end-stage capitalism.

Through the years, capitalism has proved quite resilient.

Are we now in an age of late-stage capitalism? We could be.

There was a good book written in the 1930s by an Indian writer, R. Palme Dutt: Fascism or Social Revolution.

These are sort of two different potential directions a late-stage capitalist society can go in.

There are those that think the US is going fascist. I'm not entirely sure, though it could be.

Late-stage capitalism going to fascism is consistent with Marxist theory. Counterrevolutionary implements are well established, so fascism is probably more likely than social revolution. And this, again, is consistent with Marxist theory about late-stage capitalism.
#14965542
I think @Crantag has his assessment right. Although due to the nature of Capitalism, I suspect if it does end it won't be due to boom and bust (as Capitalism is resilient and values always level out after bubbles burst or recession) but instead over inequality issues between the poor and rich leading to uprising against the landowners and the elite from the 99%.

The power is in the numbers and if the numbers are against the system, the system will die.
#14965557
@B0ycey He, @Crantag, didn't say anything of substance.

Currency debasement is a current problem and it will likely blow up at some point but out of the ashes of that will just be a more capitalism hopefully with a more honest money supply. Only a complete idiot could actually want to be enslaved to a communist system after having been burnt by the currency counterfieters. It's like fixing a flea bite with amputation.
#14965570
SolarCross wrote:@B0ycey He, @Crantag, didn't say anything of substance.

Currency debasement is a current problem and it will likely blow up at some point but out of the ashes of that will just be a more capitalism hopefully with a more honest money supply. Only a complete idiot could actually want to be enslaved to a communist system after having been burnt by the currency counterfieters. It's like fixing a flea bite with amputation.


Why is there no substance in saying "who knows"? Although I was more interested in his comment on the resilience of Capitalism and what might come after late stage Capitalism.

As for Communism, you are still confusing Soviet fascism with actual Communism. Until you understand the difference, you will never understand the difference between the two ideologies.

And lastly currency debasement perhaps this isn't so much of a factor as demand for how the global financial system works and as such will not be a factor in why Capitalism might end. The value of currency is worth as much as someone else is prepared to exchange for it after all. So sure, China will debase their currency as they have an export economy where the advantage is with a weak currency. But when the demand stops a currency will devalue until it reaches a point where it matches their economic output. So in layman terms this means hyperinflation will not mean the end of Capitalism but a reset in the value of things to what currency dictates it's worth.

And now to my point. Capitalism will not destroy itself. Only lack of desire for the system will do that. And when the poor believe the system is against them and is affecting their standard of living, they will rebel against the system and demand something new. And whether that is Communism or not, this is unknown. But it won't be Capitalism rebooted, that I am sure of.
#14965574
Currency debasement is a literal fraud being perpetrated against those who work for that money. It isn't just china doing it either, it is pretty much every country in the world for the past 40 years or so.

The counterfieters may have to be hung for it but afterwards no one is going to want "communism" whether it is the actual communism of history or the magical pink unicorn communism of fantasy literature, because that would be beyond stupid.
#14965580
Humans by their nature just want the best standard of living they can have SolarCross. Currently that is Capitalism and most Westerners will just accept this system as they have a comfortable standard of living from it. When this is no longer true, people are not just going to accept the Kardashians sitting on their arse as they starve in the street. They will fight against the system and ask for something fairer. Communism - where everything of value is shared and not possessed - is fairer than what we have today and as such might be a system people demand in economic turmoil.
#14965600
B0ycey wrote:Humans by their nature just want the best standard of living they can have SolarCross. Currently that is Capitalism and most Westerners will just accept this system as they have a comfortable standard of living from it. When this is no longer true, people are not just going to accept the Kardashians sitting on their arse as they starve in the street. They will fight against the system and ask for something fairer. Communism - where everything of value is shared and not possessed - is fairer than what we have today and as such might be a system people demand in economic turmoil.


You are more or less right up until "fairer". The fairer thing will be for the currency counterfeiters to be hung and we go back once more to honest money. The communism of history is completely repellent and the fantasy communism you seem to pine for is an ill-thought out childish fancy that will never happen. The only thing wrong with capitalism is currency debasement and that is only thing that needs fixing.

What you want to do is fix a flat tire by dropping a lit match into the petrol tank. No one is going to let you do that.
#14966517
stage IV capinoma? aggressive metastatic capiphoma?
#14973978
WarmPotato wrote:z.jpg

Late stage capitalism is a Myth.

Its a myth perpetuated by socialists, communists, and marxists - in the hopes that repeating such a notion will bring it into being. Its a near universally known economic principle that faith in the economy is key to driving strong economic growth - and a lack of faith can kill the markets.

People pulling money out of the stock market and withdrawing all they have from the bank, then leads to an economic depression, which allows for authoritarian figures to capitalize on fear and uncertainty. Much like FDR did during the Great Depression, there are plenty who understand the one simple fact of life: the easiest people to manipulate, are fearful and anxious.

And so, the notion of "Late Stage Capitalism" continues to be repeated by left wing psychopaths all over the web, who operate on one of two assumptions. Firstly, its a great fantasy that can be used to make lots of money. Just like doomsday preppers, predicting the downfall of society is a great way to gain attention and sell books. Secondly, some people actually believe it.

They're foolish enough to believe utopia will come when the US economy collapses, and have their fingers crossed waiting for that day. Its sad really, how dreadfully uninformed they are.

Everyone needs something to believe in, even if its a cult of naysayers and disbelievers, everyone needs something to believe in.

Its likely that I'll be receiving hateful comments from people who believe in this communist myth with all their heart, and that's okay. The truth hurts. I don't blame them for their zealous disbelief. I only hope they'll wake up to their folly. Rather than obsess about your pet doomsday scenario, you ought to focus on making the present day a better place. You hear me you crazed socialists?! Altruism! Try it some time!

https://youtu.be/humRElATN2Y

Your video actually implied (!!!) that the Great Depression was caused by a run on banks by the public!

Neither you nor your video presented any analysis of the potential of capitalism for future growth and success. All that has been said has consisted of nonsensical and childish taunts and whining against "communism", yet the use and application of the word "communism" in the video makes it very clear to anyone with any genuine understanding of Marxian analysis that the author of the video has no vague clue as to what communism is or how it would come about. Also included are the standard false spins on things like Social Security. So the OP and its video is merely a pathetic waste of time.

Ok, now with that out of the way I'll address the issue of "late stage capitalism". Is it real? Is it true? Are we in the USA in late stage capitalism?

YES.

Early-stage capitalism was much more primitively organized. Industry was in its infancy. Assembly lines were non-existent. Division of labor was undeveloped. Banking support was undeveloped. That is a thumbnail snapshot of early-stage capitalism.

Today capitalism, particularly in the USA, is highly developed. Manufacturing has become so advanced and streamlined and automated that capacity utilization is about 78%, leaving 22% of productive capacity unused because the capitalist cannot sell all he could produce, at the price he needs to maintain his 3% compounded annual growth. And so as this productive capacity advanced, the economy changed to a service economy in the 1980s. And now the service economy is "maxing-out" and so top capitalists are boosting their bottom line with completely non-productive activities like stock buy-backs and speculative investment in things like real estate and precious metals. A number of the top 0.05% are buying large parcels of land in New Zealand and are building fortified compounds there to which they can retreat when the bottom falls out.

Capitalists are now moving toward extreme automation, which will create the unemployment that will spell their doom.

So, are we in early-stage capitalism, middle-stage capitalism, or late-stage capitalism? Obviously this is late-stage capitalism. Does that mean capitalism is about to collapse or implode? I don't think so. It has a few more years in it. But the USA is clearly transitioning to a fascist-type totalitarianism. The RNC and their lock-step members have taken up the tactic of doing and saying anything they need to say to get elected along with all the gerrymandering and voter purges and voting machines lacking an audit trail and numerous other tricks to essentially steal elections. This expresses their intention to achieve one-party rule and one-party dictatorship. They have abandoned all pretense of serving the American people at all. They are, through their organizations including A.L.E.C., forming a tight alliance with top corporations. "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours".

Yup, capitalism is struggling more and more. This is definitely late-stage capitalism.
#14974001
Victoribus Spolia wrote:I have a new term to introduce; "Late Stage Statism."


All of the above are subsets of Late Stage Complexity.

New complex (and very fragile) production/control systems have evolved to replace more primitive (but sturdier) systems of food distribution, transportation, and communication. Whether it was intentional or not, these systems are irreversible - they can't be ratcheted back or turned off without severe dislocation.

Consider financial clearing as an example. We no longer have the armies of trained clerks to do this manually, and with the current size of capital and money markets it's probably not even possible. A freak solar flare destroying computer networks/power transformers, a concerted cyber attack, a global heating induced hurricane drowning NY financial district... As these and other innovations were introduced bit by bit, no one was stepping back and asking "how can we engineer robustness into this new world?"

Thus fragilities are embedded in our basic survival systems at every level and across every industry. The scope and depth of system fragility increases every day.

No one can say when, where, or how, but... It is inevitable that a predictably unpredictable trigger will randomly push the system from metastability into chaos.

(These are strictly internal problems of complexity. I'm ignoring hard external problems, like environmental degradation.)
#14974023
WarmPotato wrote:Rather than obsess about your pet doomsday scenario.

Marxists don't. A dialectical theory of Society seeks out the structural laws underlying the empirical world, which manifest themselves in these empirical facts and are in turn modified by them.

The fetishisation of objective laws has its counterpart in the fetishisation of facts. Dialectical thinking, acutely aware of the preponderance of these objective laws, criticises rather than celebrates both them and the illusion that the course of the world is already determined by what is particular and concrete. Much more likely is that under the spell of the historical process the particular and the concrete are prevented from realization altogether.

Theodor W. Adorno


:lol:
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