MOM is the cause of structural unemployment in Singapore. (& the real reason why Minimum Wage is not - Politics | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

"It's the economy, stupid!"

Moderator: PoFo Economics & Capitalism Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please.
MOM is the cause of structural unemployment in Singapore. (& the real reason why Minimum Wage is not legislated till now in Singapore.)

Is simply because almost 38% of Singapore workforce is foreign and even work permit holders make up 27.4% of Singapore workforce, the majority of which may not even be Singaporean if PRs were instead counted as foreigners to begin with.


Imagine if a minimum wage law was passed, all these foreigners will riot if they were not also paid that amount since costs of living applies generally to all (foreigners don't get NTUC discounts nor healthcare subsidies).

To exclude foreigners from such minimum wage laws would also not sit well within diplomatic circles, as if the law here were so biased that important legislature on work benefits were skewed towards solely a certain strata.

Thus Singapore government resorts to workfare and progressive wage model to subsidise Singaporean wages albeit very grudgingly and with an overpriced and bloated bureaucracy to do so.

My suggestion is that PAP government roll back GST or remove it totally and reduce the MOM bureaucracy by half or more with flat work levies for ALL foreigners whatever their salary or job. The amount of $$$ yielded from these new levies and the reduced headcount at MOM should possibly cover some if not all of GST collected and maybe some more if that would make Singaporean workers and their foreign colleagues at work happier with a fairer and more just employment arrangement and thus make Singapore made products more innovative (better) and tourist more attracted to visit Singapore for it's reputation as a happy place rather than as a centrally managed economy with a novelty value the likes of North Korea, just to satisfy their lust for a sense of Schedenfrude, seeing people work their guts out here.

With a universal and uniform foreign worker levy, it may be estimated that the bureaucracy of the top heavy MOM workforce can probably be reduced by 80% upwards with much government budget costs savings as a result.

With a uniform foreign worker levy system, it may then be POSSIBLE to implement a minimum wage system on the basis that the both the worker and his employer are responsible to pay the levy which can be estimated to be approx $600 and adjusted as necessary in future. Thus, it might not be economical for a foreigner to accept construction work earning $1400/month if what is left after deduction for employment levy and housing costs etc does not leave him much to spend on. This uniform and universal foreign worker levy system will also significantly reduce structural unemployment in Singapore, much of which were caused by distortions created by the tiered foreign worker levy system to begin with. This existing populism driven tiered foreign worker levy only reaffirms social stereotypes and makes Singapore susceptible to international labour demand pressures since foreigners would leave Singapore for greener pastures with no nacent Singaporean workforce ability to cover for their departure, likewise the significant structural unemployment of some PMETs here when foreigners land onshore in large numbers, with the same skillsets and accepting the same PMET jobs at lower salary levels. Instead of helping Singaporeans to have good jobs, MOM has in the long run, by pandering to social stereotypes, instead caused many Singaporeans to lose their jobs and worsened the situation by endlessly enlarging it's own bureaucratic foothold and siphoned increasing levels of government budget into it's own autocratic, misled and delusional cause.
PeanutButtor (HWZ) wrote:Sinkieland is small and conservative. Lag of more job diversity, everyone competing for the same job. And how much jobs is creating yearly and how much ceca is coming in to take over job that fresh grad sinkie can do. Even i noticed mnc bring fresh ceca in and they are lazy and work for self interest.

"Lack of job diversity", "everyone competing for the same job".

Aka: structural unemployment.

This is exactly why I say MOM (Ministry Of Manpower) is guilty as charged for causing this dire situation.

Because MOM pandered to populist sentiment to shun certain jobs (e.g. construction): ends up, these jobs never evolved and remained 3rd world and operating on medieval technology and methods which are dangerous and dirty.

There is always a segment of population who will be more creative with their hands but their talents are never developed because MOM perpetuates and exaggerated the idea that Singaporeans don't want such jobs- ends up the sector is totally under developed and cannot win projects in advanced cities and the remaining Singaporeans who work in construction, even if in senior position, are looked down upon and can never do well because their staff (subordinates) are mostly all foreigners who are not rooted to Singapore and always on the hunt for greener pastures which in the construction sector, Singapore will probably not see in the next 50 years.

Many of these local talents, due to societial prejudice/stereotype, never achieve their full potential and instead take to alcohol and drugs or depend on 4D/TOTO (public lottery) as their main path to success. Their dreams are never fulfilled and they remain angry and frustrated in their twilight years after retirement.

Singapore has been running on steroids (mob rule) for the last 54 years. Thus naturally, it now time for side effects of such doping/ drug abuse (aka social inequality) to take their eventual toll: widespread economic turmoil and social breakdowns are thus expected down the road unless radical reforms by and within the civil service are taken.
Chromesthlesia(HWZ) wrote:actually this TS has some excellent points (at times).

But the way you speak ah, I cannot make it past the first paragraph since it's rather emotively-biased.

Example this sentence:

"The amount of $$$ yielded from these new levies and the reduced headcount at MOM should possibly cover some if not all of GST collected and maybe some more if that would make Singaporean workers and their foreign colleagues at work happier with a fairer and more just employment arrangement and thus make Singapore made products more innovative (better) and tourist more attracted to visit Singapore for it's reputation as a happy place rather than as a centrally managed economy with a novelty value the likes of North Korea, just to satisfy their lust for a sense of Schedenfrude, seeing people work their guts out here."

^This just ain't factual. My english ain't good and I myself tend to type long and winding broken sentences in the wrong grammer, but this just doesn't make sense.

If you speak in a more neutral and factual-based tone logos, I think more people will side you. With your standard of english, I presume that you have underwent an university degree. I take it that the university would have trained you to present facts and assignments in a logos tone.

Thank you for your comments.

What I am just saying is that tourists come to Singapore more out of curiosity and intrigue.

Everyone comes here to check out why our GDP grew so exponentially. Those from ex-communist countries in Asia arrive to check out the physical developments that they missed out on as communism allowed despots to destroy their own home economies. Westerns come to check out if the citizens of Singapore (with a per-capita GDP even higher than their own), are indeed as happy as the PAP government paints them out internationally to be.

But then if they open their eyes here, they will discover that their impression of Singapore is very much just the propaganda of the PAP political establishment and for quite a number of Singaporeans, their lives are miserable and not far from 3rd world in terms of fulfillment/quality. Inequality in Singapore is much worse than in many 3rd world countries by gini coefficient alone.

For many years, probably PAP has managed to cultivate a glorious image of Singapore with it's international airport, Orchard Road shopping belt, port, National Airlines, world's top tier military spending in % GDP terms and gleeming casinos, few foreign reporters interested in examining poverty were welcomed to our shores. Unfortunately, the internet has since democratized information and also, the ease of air travel have allowed not just the richest strata of tourists to visit.

My projection of Singapores economic future is that our prospects slide (dimm) in the globalized (internet) age because PAP is no longer able to dictate the impression of Singapore to the world and ordinary citizens like me (or even tourists) can now independently take photos and blog internationally (sometimes very negatively) when warranted, such as when despotic foreign governments consider adopting the Singapore parliamentary elections system of gerrymandering and fixing the opposition. Many social groups also blog about rampant inequality and poverty on the streets and so do tourist who use Google maps to explore the nook and crannies of Singapore wherein in the past, government officials would frown upon anyone unauthorized showing tourists our less wealthy/opulent areas or our social underclass. Ardent capitalist tourists experience their desired sense of Schedenfrude when they see old, handicapped and deformed Singaporeans struggling to clear tables and picking up cardboard whilst those with a more compassionate side find our society inhumane and unkind.

In conclusion, Singapore as a tourist destination is more of a rich man's playground than a reputable oasis for rehabilitation or rejuvenation. This means that the attractiveness of Singapore like every rich man's playground, is likely to soon be discarded as used underwear as many a rich man's play thing are tossed out the moment something more interesting catches their eye. The long term success for Singapore as an attractive tourist sanctuary/ destination is limited by the rampant inequality in Singapore which is likely to increase crime and corruption rates and eventually the downfall of Singapore (a nation well on its way towards becoming a ghettoized concrete jungle plagued by rampant crime, poverty and an exorbitant cost of living, Hell on Earth in short).

Some videos about/ representing Singapore:



According to Minister Tan Chuan Jin's spin story, many old people like the following, collect cardboard on the streets to sell to recyclers for exercise (hobby) and don't do it primarily for money:

The AGC in supporting the PAP political campaign during elections with absurd/ridiculous legal statute interpretations and also Phillipines President Duterte announcement that Singapore is a Garrison ostensibly run by a despotic/junta, also doesn't engender confidence in Singapore's social/economic stability in the long run:

Image "I burned the flag of Singapore. I said: 'F*** you ... You are a garrison pretending to be a country.'" - Mr Duterte in a November speech, recalling how in 1995 he burned a Singapore flag to protest at the execution of a Filipina maid in the city-state.
pattanispirit (HWZ) wrote: if min wage is implemented, does that apply to maids as well ?

based on current working hr of maid, it's 6 days x 12 hrs min.

that's 72 hrs work week, which means 72-44 hr =28 hr OT, which at least 12 hrs double pay and the rest 1.5x.

if assuming yr min wage is $7 a hour, their basic should be $1,334 + 16x1.5x7 + 12x2x7 = 1334 + 168 + 168 = $1,670

can govt still implement maid levies ?

will housewives still can work part time or full time ?

will children give up their career to take care of their sick or old parent ?

if work outside earning 3k, after cpf and other expenses, what take home is just nice to pay maid.

so, uni grad, dip holder, pmet rather work at home to take care of babies & old ppl than to work for paying maids.

Before I answer your calculations, do note that there are National security implications wrt over reliance on foreign manpower for domestic chores or manual labor because one can expect these labour sources to very quickly dry up the moment civil unrest breaks out in region or in Singapore.

The miserableness of life will be much exaggerated if Singaporeans don't have the capability to fend for themselves: e.g. ride a bicycle to get around, do own house hold repairs, cook for themselves and help look after the neighbors kids etc.

Even the SAF is crucially dependent upon foreign manpower in order for it's fighter jets to take off and land, what happens if the foreigners deliberately work slowly or even sabotage the operations of our military?


Specific to your calculations, minimum wage for all including maids will bring up manual workers dignity level because their wages are not undercut by cheap foreign labour and with more PMET openings (due to foreigners paying a uniform levy across the board), some Singaporeans more suited for PMET jobs will not jostle with those desiring menial jobs. Top end wages (e-pass level, politicians, CEO etc) are exaggerated by the fact that there is no foreign worker levy liability/deduction so employers can pay this group of employees much more.

As a group, cleaners and manual labourers are paid much less because to hire this cohort of workers, a high foreign worker levy is to be paid to government.

With overall improved job security for Singapore citizens in local jobs, productivity and national pride can be expected to improve in the long run.

Wrt domestic helper Levy's, these can be deducted from the minimum wage (i.e. wages plus levy paid to government must exceed the minimum wage), so the total costs of a foreign domestic helper may not exceed the minimum wage. Foreign domestic helper are a unique category which may warrant unique labour and salary laws because they stay in with their employer whom by Singapore tradition, clothe and feed them, don't have fixed work hours and some even also enjoy their employer's condo facilities (the lucky ones have time off to play beach volleyball at Sports hub beach volleyball court); therefore, maybe their salary can be fixed at a lower quantum, suffice to say, the levy paid to government on a foreign domestic helper shouldn't be any lower than a foreign worker in any other job. Those who cannot afford a full time helper should hire hourly house keeping service or pay their neighbors to look after their kids. Vice versa, some housewives can operate their own mini infant care service within their own homes or in the case of public HDB flats, PAP and other operators operate many child and elder Care centres at void decks providing both childcare and also respectable jobs to the residents living in vicinity locations.
MOM tiered foreign worker levy scheme treats humans like Brainless robots. Thus the poor productivity of Singaporean workforce.
pattanispirit(HWZ) wrote:to solve maid problem :
1. increase birth
- to increase supply of junior labour like part time babysitters in western countries
- to increase labour market, so mothers can stay home as housewives /caregivers for aged

2. increase childcare centres & old folk homes
how to solve labour shortage in other sectors if more housewives stay at home ?
- import more foreigners ?
- reduce economy activities ?

back to square one :s22:

I think what u have just submitted is quite self contradictory. Please edit it so it can make sense.

Suffice to say, there are trade offs in any rebalancing, the true requirement being that the final outcome is better than the original to society overall.

A humane and just valuation of menial work in Singapore is crucially needed to optimize our workforce and return dignity to the people. People can only perform well when they behave and think like compassionate people, not robots. But MOM tiering the foreigner worker levy scheme turns all people into brainless robots, thus the poor productivity output of Singapore.

Undervaluing childcare, labour intensive service work irreplaceable by automation, all cheapens the lives of Singaporeans without professional qualifications and creates an unstable economy forever dependent upon foreign workforce, implying an inherently unstable country (economy).

We are setting up ourselves for failure if we don't correct these imbalances and inherent societial prejudices and weaknesses.

I repeat, the stupid foreign worker quota ratios only invites PMET level workers to under perform and prefer phantom menial work type jobs due to the minimum wage model inherent in such jobs but packaged as a 'progressive wage scheme'.

Likewise, the progressive (minimum) wage model only attracts more such menial workers for the implied job security such jobs claim to provide by government mandate (as opposed to the job insecurity of PMET jobs), which overwhelms the system ultimately and gives skills future Singapore a Sisyphean task of retraining the retrenched which only piles up since the demand for progressive wage model type jobs is unceasing.

Ultimately, the MOM foreigner tiered levy model is like heroin with short term ecstatic results but severe side effects and withdrawal symptoms. A self defeating addiction designed to bloat MOM bureaucracy and destroy Singapore in the long run.
Full thread discussion at: ... t119921593
Trump, Oh my god !

It was never in reference to Epstein's suicide(Au[…]

And if we use someone’s past history as an indica[…]

The Evolution Fraud

Yes, and thank you for defining which things are […]

Is it true Sima Qian's Records Of The Grand Histo[…]