Where does wealth grow from?’ V - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15131364
Wellsy wrote:Why are we as a whole wealthier than before?


Well there are those who hold debt, so I would query this question in particular. But in terms of your topic title, the answer is your intellectual property and ability is worth something.
#15131513
Wellsy wrote:Why are we as a whole wealthier than before?


It comes from the expropriation of the surplus labor of working people, wealth does. What appears to be an increase in wealth however is largely artificial, an illusion, created by fiat money and usury. People want or need to live at a certain level in society and are enabled to do so by easy credit and debt instruments. I've seen plenty of people with six-figure incomes but money-poor, highly paid workers who can barely make ends meet to keep their standard of living.
#15131520
annatar1914 wrote:
It comes from the expropriation of the surplus labor of working people, wealth does. What appears to be an increase in wealth however is largely artificial, an illusion, created by fiat money and usury. People want or need to live at a certain level in society and are enabled to do so by easy credit and debt instruments. I've seen plenty of people with six-figure incomes but money-poor, highly paid workers who can barely make ends meet to keep their standard of living.



That's the thing, one's *standard of living*.

We could ask where people's current standard-of-living comes from, as legitimately as inquiring as to *wealth*.

So which is it, is there an overall total increasing accumulation of surplus labor of working people, or is it an 'illusion' due to the rewards (rent / interest) claimed by rentier capital?

Accumulated profits, from workers' surplus labor value, are real (capitalist material exchange-value) gains that add to cumulative *equity capital*, whereas claims by rentier capital (rent / interest) do *not* increase value, because rentier capital is rewarded by *pre-existing value* -- rentier capital itself is *non-productive*, it does not produce commodities (goods / services) that can be sold for more than it cost to make them, to increase exchange values. (M-C-M' cycle)

Fiat money has to be issued by governments (like the U.S.) because of prevailing *deflation* and bad debt, meaning that trillions of dollars are *out of circulation*, just sitting in offshore accounts and corporate cash, etc., a dynamic that causes a *liquidity crunch* in the cash circulation of the real economy.

(Don't buy the MMTers hyperbolic line about 1970s-type 'inflation', because the problem these days is *deflation*, mostly.)
#15131528
Wellsy wrote:Why are we as a whole wealthier than before?


Wealth is created by innovation, creativity, and providing what the masses need.

Let's say I am the inventor of the computer.
I set up a factory and pay workers to build my computer on an assembly line as per my plans.

I sell the computer to millions of people that feel the price of the computer is acceptable because the can be more productive in their own work.
I collect the money from the computer sales and pay the factory workers who are now able to put food on the table.

The grocery store owners make more money because the factory employees have cash to buy food.
The small business owners that buy my computer become more productive with my computer and they earn more. Many order several computers to be even more productive. They go out and buy other stuff making someone else rich.

In summary:

The guy that invented the computer becomes a billionaire.
His employees make more money and buy stuff. Someone else makes money.
More restaurants open because people have money to spend.
Builders build homes because people want to buy houses.


One of the buyers of the computers decides to write a book and she becomes a billionaire after others buy her book. They buy the book because they think the joy of reading the book is worth the price of the book. Bookstores that sell the book make a small profit.


This is wealth creation due to the creativity and innovation of just one person.
#15131563
You get rich by being rich, already, or very lucky. Hard work, creativity, and innovation have a bit to do with it, though. They are factors.
#15131568
Julian658 wrote:
I set up a factory and pay workers to build my computer on an assembly line as per my plans.


Julian658 wrote:
This is wealth creation due to the creativity and innovation of just one person.



Would you like to *revisit* this at all, Julian?
#15131581
Rancid wrote:
My quick one word answer is labor.


My one word answer would be diuturnal.
(had to google to find a one word answer)

Our products - artifacts, knowledge, and societies - are (generally) more resistant to intentional damage as well as resistant to wear and tear than those of the past. We spend less effort remaking/rebuilding/etc which leaves more effort available for new products. Combined with increased production and our desire to have more, it results in having more, so we are 'wealthier'.

Think of your current life - how much stuff you have and how many hours of work (be it at a job for cash, or direct labour) it costs to maintain it. In the past a lot of our work was spent to pay for quickly consumable goods (food), we had a lot of high upkeep things (cleaning was a lot of effort) and goods deteriorated quickly (clothing). Food is now much cheaper, cleaning is much easier and our things last longer given their cost. This leaves us with more things that are easily quantifiable.
Are we happier? Better developed ('self-actualized') ? - maybe, maybe not.. but that is rarely part of what we consider, let alone measure, when we talk of "wealth".
#15131624
ckaihatsu wrote:Would you like to *revisit* this at all, Julian?

The workers assemble the computer and hence have added some value. The inventor and factory owner can only build a few computers on his own. The owner pays the assembly workers and for the job. Is a contractual transaction of labor exchange for cash.

With no tools, plans, training, parts, supplies, direction, and supervision the workers produce NOTHING. This is a KEY concept.

Assume the computer inventor makes 50 dollars per computer once they are assembled. If the inventor does not have a high volume his effort is worthless. If he sells millions of computers he makes a lot of money. The secret to wealth creation is volume.

The inventor employs thousands of workers who get to spend their salaries elsewhere making someone else wealthy. The workers may decide they want to buy a video game. Whomever is making video games will sell a lot and become wealthy. If the inventor and creator does not take a profit. IN other words if he shares the profit with the workers then the owner has no incentive to invent, create, and innovate.

The origin of the wealth is creativity, innovation, organization, marketing, and lastly VOLUME. Without volume wealth accumulation is difficult. Wealth is no finite. Wealth is created. The amount of wealth in the world is much higher than in the past.

There is a valid point in the left. The wealth creators are very few in number and own a very large share of the wealth of the world.
Perhaps the innovators need to pay more for services provided by the workers.
#15131625
Godstud wrote:You get rich by being rich, already, or very lucky.


How did the first rich person become rich? At the onset we were at the same level.
#15131629
Thunderhawk wrote:
My one word answer would be diuturnal.
(had to google to find a one word answer)

Our products - artifacts, knowledge, and societies - are (generally) more resistant to intentional damage as well as resistant to wear and tear than those of the past. We spend less effort remaking/rebuilding/etc which leaves more effort available for new products. Combined with increased production and our desire to have more, it results in having more, so we are 'wealthier'.

Think of your current life - how much stuff you have and how many hours of work (be it at a job for cash, or direct labour) it costs to maintain it. In the past a lot of our work was spent to pay for quickly consumable goods (food), we had a lot of high upkeep things (cleaning was a lot of effort) and goods deteriorated quickly (clothing). Food is now much cheaper, cleaning is much easier and our things last longer given their cost. This leaves us with more things that are easily quantifiable.
Are we happier? Better developed ('self-actualized') ? - maybe, maybe not.. but that is rarely part of what we consider, let alone measure, when we talk of "wealth".


True, I agree with what you are saying here.

Also, as you said, Wealth does not measure happiness, but that wasn't the premise of the opening question anyway.

Fuck happiness, my money will keep me warm at night. :|
#15131630
At the onset we were at the same level.
Were we, really? It started somewhere and it had to do with force. eg. Feudalism.

I don't think you've thought this through.
#15131641
Julian658 wrote:There was a time when all humans were hunter and gatherers. They started at the same level.


So that 'we' is now a 'they'. So 'we' do not all start at the same level. Although that isn't a secret. Everyone is aware of the class system... I hope.
#15131642
:roll: Yes, I suppose so, but that is completely irrelevant to modern society. You're making a really stupid point, that makes no sense, all in an attempt to push your fucked up narrative that we're all equal. It's false. Most people have different starting points.

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