[Puffer Fish]

Warnings about South Africa's unemployment rate, with anger rising and millions jobless

South Africa's official unemployment rate of 33% is the highest in the world, even higher than other obvious places like Gaza and the West Bank, Djibouti and Kosovo. A United Nations report delivered to the South African government in July (2023) described the situation as a “ticking time bomb”.

Warnings about South Africa's unemployment rate, with anger rising and millions jobless, Associated Press
8/14/2023

South Africa used to be the only First World country on the African continent, from the mid-1960s to about 1990.

The only country in Africa that had a higher GDP was Egypt, but that was only because Egypt had 6 times the population at that time.
Today this is no longer the case.

In the 80s, South Africa was in the news all the time. Today the media won't touch it.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Puffer Fish

what do you think the impact of immigration is?

[Puffer Fish]

what do you think the impact of immigration is?

Immigration is a factor but it's a smaller factor in South Africa. From everything I have read, I get the impression that immigration may only be responsible for 7 to 14% of the problem. South Africa does have illegal immigrants who come from the even poorer countries of Botswana, Mozambique, and Zimbabwe (even though the unemployment levels are lower there). Of course with the very high unemployment levels, the ordinary South African people take a very negative view of illegal immigration, as you can imagine. (Although that doesn't necessarily translate into the government taking a hard line)

Another small additional factor is that South Africa does contain two countries within it, Lesetho and Eswatni, which are really almost more like protectorates of South Africa. This is a legacy from when the White government created designated territory for the native tribes to live in, so the blacks would have their own nation. These territories have higher birth rates and people pour out of them to seek better opportunities in South Africa. If you choose to also count "immigration" coming from these territories, then maybe you could add another 2 or 3%.
But many might not feel it is fair to count that as "immigration" since these countries were formed from nations native to South Africa, and even if they are officially independent countries, in many ways they are treated like South African domains.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Puffer Fish

So you think the white immigrants who ran SA had no impact?

You usually blame immigrants, unless they are white.

[Puffer Fish]

So you think the white immigrants who ran SA had no impact?

Before about 1987 to 1993, whites pretty much ran maybe 79% of the economy in SA, with "Coloureds" (a special racial-economic class consisting of mixed African and White ancestry who were kind of like a separate caste) accounting for another 9% of the economy, and Indian businesses accounting for another 4%.
That is if the economy were measured by standard economic methods, but of course those methods are not entirely accurate. You could argue Black workers played a support role, enabling that level of white economic output. But probably around 35% of the Black population was mostly detached from the mainstream economy, either due to poverty and underemployment, or living in more remote tribal areas. (The official unemployment rate in SA in 1980 was still only 7%, though some estimate it at 9.3%)

(These percentage numbers are not exact but help convey a sense of what the economy was like)


After 1980, unemployment began gradually increasing. By the middle of 2001, unemployment had reached 26% but then mostly leveled off for the next 15 years, but then after that began to very slowly creep upwards again.

[Puffer Fish]

Some will claim the black-led government was the cause of unemployment going up, but that is only partially true or not entirely obvious from looking at the data.

I would estimate, based on the data, that the new government might have only caused a 1.6% increase in the unemployment rate.
(22.1% in 1993 , 23.7% in 2009 , 18 years later. Although international sanctions, internal worker strikes and widespread violence may have been causing the unemployment rate to rise before the new government took over)

Around 2018, SA began implementing racial affirmative action rules surrounding corporate ownership. Coincidentally or not, the unemployment rate began rapidly shooting up within just 2 years after this, even though it had been on the very slow gradual increase before then.
The new rules required that 50% of the equity in corporate ownership be owned by black persons. In reality, what this ended up meaning was that a very small minority of wealthy blacks, mostly just a handful of individuals, were able to buy up a large percentage of the corporate ownership. So ironically it had the unintentional consequence of further skewing the country's wealth distribution by concentrating it into a handful of billionaires, even though it created Black billionaires for the first time.

[Pants-of-dog]

Before about 1987 to 1993, whites pretty much ran maybe 79% of the economy in SA, with "Coloureds" (a special racial-economic class consisting of mixed African and White ancestry who were kind of like a separate caste) accounting for another 9% of the economy, and Indian businesses accounting for another 4%.
That is if the economy were measured by standard economic methods, but of course those methods are not entirely accurate. You could argue Black workers played a support role, enabling that level of white economic output. But probably around 35% of the Black population was mostly detached from the mainstream economy, either due to poverty and underemployment, or living in more remote tribal areas. (The official unemployment rate in SA in 1980 was still only 7%, though some estimate it at 9.3%)

(These percentage numbers are not exact but help convey a sense of what the economy was like)


After 1980, unemployment began gradually increasing. By the middle of 2001, unemployment had reached 26% but then mostly leveled off for the next 15 years, but then after that began to very slowly creep upwards again.

You completely ignored my point.

[Puffer Fish]

You completely ignored my point.

You might have to make your point more clear.

Most all of the ancestors of the later white population were already in South Africa by 1910.

Why do you think SA became the most industrialized nation in Africa?


I did find this interesting tidbit in South African history:
"The following year [1905], indentured Chinese labourers (who were repatriated to their country in 1907) were imported to work on the gold and diamond mines, with the consequence that Black workers' wages were further eroded."

[Truth To Power]

South Africa's official unemployment rate of 33%

"Near"?

[Puffer Fish]

South Africa plans to withdraw from UN conventions so it can restrict immigration and send refugees back to countries not deemed dangerous

South Africa is planning to withdraw from UN conventions so the government can restrict immigration and send refugees back to countries that are not deemed dangerous.

Home affairs minister Aaron Motsoaledi has announced plans to toughen the nation's asylum and immigration laws as part of his bid to 'overhaul' the migration system in South Africa.

One of the chief proposals, featured in the government's 'White Paper', is that the South African government temporarily withdraws from the 1951 United Nations Refugees Convention and the 1967 Protocol to the Status of Refugees. This would allow South Africa to opt out of certain clauses to restrict immigration and not grant socio-economic rights to migrants that are laid out in the 1951 Convention, Motsoaledi said.

by Rachael Bunyan, DailyMail, 21 November 2023
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... erous.html