[Truth To Power]

Communism, @Puffer Fish. It’s the only answer. You’ll see that some day.

No. If you can find a willingness to know self-evident and indisputable facts of objective physical reality, YOU will see someday that Marx was completely wrong because he understood nothing about production or capital, and the correct analysis of and only genuine remedy for the problem of worker exploitation was provided by Henry George more than 140 years ago, and NO correct analysis or effective remedy was ever provided by Karl Marx or anyone who subscribes to Marxism-socialism, or ever will be.

[Truth To Power]

Japan has invested heavily in publicly funded housing since 1948, and has national zoning laws that limit urban sprawl. These seem far more important than demographics.

No, that's just economically uninformed garbage. In the 1970s and 80s, Japan's national zoning laws created a massive housing shortage, skyrocketing housing costs, and microscopic living spaces -- I know because I was living there. The demographic factor has massively reduced housing prices because land value is governed primarily by the expected relationship between the discount rate and the land rent increase rate. Population decline has made the expected land rent increase rate far smaller, and in some (mainly rural) markets, even negative.

[Truth To Power]

If you do a basic economic analysis,

In which you appear to be utterly uninterested....

you can see that all home prices go up in this situation, even for the older homes.

Because it is the LAND value that is going up, not the house value. Duh.

[Truth To Power]

Government mismanagement has totally failed homebuyers in Canada.

It's not mismanagement. It is a deliberate policy of robbing home buyers and tenants -- i.e., the landless -- in order to give even more unearned wealth to homeowners -- i.e., landowners.

[Truth To Power]

If demographics were the reason for low housing costs, you would see people migrating from urban to rural areas. Instead, we see the exact opposite.

No, you have cause and effect reversed, as usual. Housing costs are low in rural areas of Japan precisely because people -- especially young people -- are more attracted to the superior economic opportunity in urban areas.

[Truth To Power]

Let's keep in mind illegal migrants also drastically reduce wages for workers in the construction sector. (It used to be that jobs in construction were good paying, lots of middle class jobs)

So that also has to hurt overall home affordability in the economy.

No, that makes no economic sense. Your claims make no sense because you refuse to know the fact that the problem is the exorbitant over-subsidization of idle landowning, not immigration, housing, or construction.

Not surprisingly, all the new homes have very shitty construction, even though they are ridiculously expensive. I'm talking about a 1.3 million dollar home that if you go up into the attic you can see it is built worse than a treehouse a father might build for his children.

How much did the land cost?

[Truth To Power]

Now you are changing the goalposts to accuse immigrants of bringing down wages.

As Henry George proved more than 140 years ago, cet. par., any increase in the workforce, whether by immigration, births exceeding deaths, higher workforce participation, women entering the workforce, etc. will reduce wages and increase land rents.

Actually, I want all of capitalism eliminated. This minor stuff you complain about is peanuts.

Well, I also want all of capitalism eliminated. The difference is that I want to replace it with something a lot better, not something a lot worse.

[late]

As Henry George proved more than 140 years ago, cet. par., any increase in the workforce, whether by immigration, births exceeding deaths, higher workforce participation, women entering the workforce, etc. will reduce wages and increase land rents.

Well, I also want all of capitalism eliminated. The difference is that I want to replace it with something a lot better, not something a lot worse.

Henry George again...

Oh well, everyone has their limits. Aside from staying stuck in the 1800s, we have more jobs than workers...

Which is a gentle way of saying you're on the wrong planet.

[Rancid]

Hell yea, I need to buy some properties. Kick out some poor people.

[Truth To Power]

Henry George again...

That's sorta like, "Isaac Newton again..." when talking about physics...

Oh well, everyone has their limits.

True. And yours would be that you can't refute a single sentence I write, or find a willingness to know self-evident and indisputable facts of objective physical reality.

Aside from staying stuck in the 1800s,

Or Newton, stuck in the 1600s....?

Self-evident and indisputable facts of objective physical reality don't somehow become false as a result of being identified centuries ago, sorry.

we have more jobs than workers...

Well, yes, because a lot of workers are holding down more than one in order to be able to afford to keep greedy, idle landowners in the style to which they demand to remain accustomed.

Which is a gentle way of saying you're on the wrong planet.

<yawn> Still waiting for you to either refute a single sentence I have written, or find a willingness to know self-evident and indisputable facts of objective physical reality that were identified in clear, simple, grammatical English more than 140 years ago. No progress on either front.

[Truth To Power]

The reasons are complex but they can be summarized with one word: colonialism.

BWAHAHAHHHAHAHAAAAAA!!!

I guess that must explain how Japan became much, much richer after it was forcibly stripped of all its colonies, how Finland, Switzerland, etc. became rich without ever having any colonies, etc., etc.

Don't you ever get tired of being hilariously wrong?

[late]

Don't you ever get tired of being hilariously wrong?

Pot calls kettle...

What's missing from this thread is a discussion of income inequality.

So if anyone wants to actually know what this is about, read Stiglitz's Price of Inequality.

[Pants-of-dog]

No, that's just economically uninformed garbage. In the 1970s and 80s, Japan's national zoning laws created a massive housing shortage, skyrocketing housing costs, and microscopic living spaces -- I know because I was living there. The demographic factor has massively reduced housing prices because land value is governed primarily by the expected relationship between the discount rate and the land rent increase rate. Population decline has made the expected land rent increase rate far smaller, and in some (mainly rural) markets, even negative.

There was a backlash against the trend in Tokyo of demolishing older low rise buildings to build new high rise apartments, which did result in shortage (relative for Japan, which means it was one of the few rimes when the number of homes was similar to the number of families, when Tokyo usually had more homes than families), but this was quickly quashed, since (as I said) Japan has a federal zoning regulation system.

Note that it was not the federal regulations that caused the shortage, but the opposition to the regulations that caused the shortage.

No, you have cause and effect reversed, as usual. Housing costs are low in rural areas of Japan precisely because people -- especially young people -- are more attracted to the superior economic opportunity in urban areas.

Yes, that is true.

But we can also see that low housing costs do not cause higher population.

Demographics, therefore is not the only factor.

As Henry George proved more than 140 years ago, cet. par., any increase in the workforce, whether by immigration, births exceeding deaths, higher workforce participation, women entering the workforce, etc. will reduce wages and increase land rents.

So then the argument is that the increase in the workforce is the cause. Immigration is simply the method by which the workforce is increased.

I guess that must explain how Japan became much, much richer after it was forcibly stripped of all its colonies,

No. I never claimed it was the sole reason why countries become rich.

Japan, after WWII, benefited immensely from US investments, strong unions, government support, market protections, and was lucky enough to not spend a dime on defense.

how Finland, Switzerland, etc. became rich without ever having any colonies, etc., etc.

So, with capitalism, Swiss and Finnish financiers were able to invest in colonial projects by buying shares.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/h ... m/45961280

[late]

That's sorta like, "Isaac Newton again..." when talking about physics...

Ever hear of Einstein?

In the couple of centuries since, economics has moved on.

You also seem oblivious to reality, there is no enthusiasm for the idea.

But keeping tilting at windmills, Don Quixote..

[Truth To Power]

delete

[Truth To Power]

Pot calls kettle...

No, because I have often proved you wrong, but you have never proved me wrong.

See the difference?

What's missing from this thread is a discussion of income inequality.

No, what's missing is a willingness, on your part, to know the self-evident and indisputable facts of objective physical reality that explain income inequality.

So if anyone wants to actually know what this is about, read Stiglitz's Price of Inequality.

That's for people who are anxious to avoid knowing the cause of inequality.

[Truth To Power]

Ever hear of Einstein?

Yes. Are you unaware of the fact that people who actually use physics on a daily basis use Newton orders of magnitude more often than Einstein?

In the couple of centuries since, economics has moved on.

But it hasn't gotten any better. In fact, it has gotten worse, as the persistence of poverty, stagnation, and institutionalized injustice in societies controlled by the ideas of mainstream neoclassical economics despite the astounding progress of technology proves.

You also seem oblivious to reality, there is no enthusiasm for the idea.

No, that is false. Everyone who values liberty, justice, and truth is enthusiastic about it. Those who are not enthusiastic about it -- and it is no doubt a large majority -- just don't value those things. Simple. But the majority being wrong does not make the minority that is right somehow not right.

But keeping tilting at windmills, Don Quixote..

The astronomical unimproved value of land proves that I am fighting the real injustice -- and that you are rationalizing, justifying, and defending it.

[late]

No, that is false. Everyone who values liberty, justice, and truth is enthusiastic about it. Those who are not enthusiastic about it -- and it is no doubt a large majority -- just don't value those things. Simple. But the majority being wrong does not make the minority that is right somehow not right.

In your dreams.. and nowhere else.

As I've said to you repeatedly, you are never going to get many people pushing for a radical change like that. People get squirrely about money. They don't understand it, but they know things can easily get screwed up.

You have an affinity for tilting at windmills. Like climate change, recent research is revealing an acceleration. While you keep trying to deny the blatantly obvious.

Bon suerte, Don Quixote...

[Truth To Power]

There was a backlash against the trend in Tokyo of demolishing older low rise buildings to build new high rise apartments, which did result in shortage (relative for Japan, which means it was one of the few rimes when the number of homes was similar to the number of families, when Tokyo usually had more homes than families),

I.e., it had a non-zero vacancy rate, as almost every city in the world almost always has.

but this was quickly quashed, since (as I said) Japan has a federal zoning regulation system.

Note that it was not the federal regulations that caused the shortage, but the opposition to the regulations that caused the shortage.

No, that's false. Japan's national zoning regulations -- like the Floor Area Ratio Law -- created the shortage by legally stopping builders from providing the kind of housing people wanted. That is why Japanese apartment buildings have their stairwells and hallways on the outside (not very pleasant in a typhoon), the apartments are microscopically small, people have to buy all new appliances when they move, etc. There is a reason why the Koreans have a proverb: "The best things in life: Chinese food, Japanese wife, American house; the worst things: American food, Japanese house, Chinese wife."

But we can also see that low housing costs do not cause higher population.

Because low housing costs largely come from declining population.

Demographics, therefore is not the only factor.

There are many factors, but demographics is one of the most important ones, for the reason I already gave.

So then the argument is that the increase in the workforce is the cause. Immigration is simply the method by which the workforce is increased.

The increase in the workforce only increases land rents and reduces wages. It doesn't force governments to give the increased publicly created land rents to private landowners in return for nothing, or to deny people just compensation for the forcible removal of their individual rights to liberty and the conversion of those rights into the private property of landowners.

I never claimed it was the sole reason why countries become rich.

Sure you did: "The reasons are complex but they can be summarized with one word: colonialism."

Remember?

Japan, after WWII, benefited immensely from US investments,

I.e., not colonialism -- unless you consider it the colony.

strong unions,

Which used gangsters to get rid of communists.

government support, market protections,

Again, not colonialism.

and was lucky enough to not spend a dime on defense.

That's just baldly false. Japan has been in the top ten of defense spending since the 70s.

So, with capitalism, Swiss and Finnish financiers were able to invest in colonial projects by buying shares.

Like anyone else. But their economies and workers prospered when others who also invested in colonial projects were stagnating.

Such a mystery...

To you, that is.

[Truth To Power]

As I've said to you repeatedly, you are never going to get many people pushing for a radical change like that.

That's just groundless nay-saying. History offers many examples of many people pushing for even more radical change: revolutionary movements in England in the 17th century, in the American colonies, in Latin America, Russia, China, etc., etc. The difference with pushing for justice in taxation and land tenure institutions is that most people are not intelligent enough to understand why they are unjust, and how to make them just. But I am intelligent enough. I'm not going to apologize for that, or pretend that the truth is not the truth.

People get squirrely about money. They don't understand it, but they know things can easily get screwed up.

I agree people typically are not intelligent enough to understand economics without a lot of help, which is why I have explained exactly how things have gotten so screwed up in clear, simple, grammatical English.

You have an affinity for tilting at windmills. Like climate change, recent research is revealing an acceleration.

No; there has been an uptick in the last two years after five years of decline because the sun became unusually active and La Nina turned into El Nino; but that is just normal variation, not an acceleration.

While you keep trying to deny the blatantly obvious.

What is blatantly obvious to anyone who looks out their window is that there is no climate crisis, and no acceleration of climate change, just normal, natural variations.