[litwin]

"Let us begin with this evident fact: Muscovy does not belong at all to Europe, but to Asia. It follows that judging Muscovy and the Muscovites by our European standards is a mistake to be avoided."—gonzague de reynold, 19501 In methodological terms, one should de-Europeanise any analysis of Muscovy policy.— thomas gomart, 20062 "

MASKAL SWEET DREAMS:




MASKAL reality :



A third of doctors in Moscow empire work for $217-$435

[Puffer Fish]

Moscow is more like a first class European city.

Most of the rest of Russia, not so much.

Many of those other "second tier" Russian cities (and surrounding regions) are actually not that different from most other Eastern European countries. But then again, most people in Northwest European countries (United Kingdom, Netherlands, Germany) do not seem to be aware of the extent of differences in living standards between Northwestern Europe and Eastern Europe.

In terms of land area, the vast majority of land area in the Asian section of Russia is backwards wilderness. Even Vladivostok, the biggest city in the Russian Far East, is kind of a lower income city, by European standards, with about the same per capita GDP as the second biggest city in Lithuania (which is not setting the bar very high).

[Puffer Fish]

Have you seen what some of the hospitals are like in the backwater parts of Russia? They were constructed in the Soviet era and are falling apart, and these hospitals have limited funds.

https://weirdrussia.com/2016/10/10/icel ... n-reality/

A lot of the workers at these hospitals are suffering from alcoholism (it's a quintessentially Russian condition, very much a part of the culture, but partly stems from despair at their mediocre standard of living and living in that climate). If these hospitals permanently sent away every employee who turned up drunk on duty, they would be understaffed, so compromises have to be made.

[Puffer Fish]

I also want to point out that if the Russians took in foreign immigration like other countries in Western Europe are doing, it would probably be devastating to them.

Why? Because all those immigrants would go to Moscow. Moscow is one of the few places in Russia with decent economic opportunity that has a good quality of life. If lots more people came to Moscow, there would be a problem of housing shortages and rents would soar. It would be more difficult for Russians to afford living in Moscow, and then they'd have to live in some other area that is not as nice.

[late]

Moscow is more like a first class European city.

3rd or 4th class..

Russia is a poor country, you need a reason to migrate. Economic migrants won't be heading there, it's poor. Not only that, it's future looks grim.

[Puffer Fish]

3rd or 4th class...

It's much cleaner than London or Paris these days.


Public cleanliness is one traditional indicator of poverty levels and standard of living.

Economic migrants won't be heading there, it's poor.

I don't disagree with you. There's a reason migrants prefer to head to the UK, Germany, or the Netherlands.

Russia does have tougher immigration policies on migrants, so that is part of it.


Maybe, what I wish people would realise and consider, if Russia can be like the way it is (in terms of standards of living), how do we know other countries (like the UK) won't end up like that?

What makes you think Western Europe is inherently different from Eastern Europe? If you take in enough migrants from impoverished parts of the world, you think things will always just remain the same?

[Puffer Fish]

One more thing to consider is that, due to all the sanctions from the US and EU, the conversion rate of Russia's currency has been artificially suppressed. So that can make it appear as if Russia is poorer than it actually is in the statistics, if you're comparing to dollars or euros.

If you look up the statistics for 2009, before the Ukraine conflict, the GDP per capita for Moscow was 40,805 USD, and 43,462 for Sakhalin, which is a big but cold Russian island just north of Japan.

(source, see table 2 here)


I highly doubt the real GDP of Russia went down by a factor of 4 within just 14 years. Which suggests currency conversion phenomena is to blame.

[late]

It's much cleaner than London or Paris these days.


Public cleanliness is one traditional indicator of poverty levels and standard of living.



I don't disagree with you. There's a reason migrants prefer to head to the UK, Germany, or the Netherlands.

Russia does have tougher immigration policies on migrants, so that is part of it.


Maybe, what I wish people would realise and consider, if Russia can be like the way it is (in terms of standards of living), how do we know other countries (like the UK) won't end up like that?

What makes you think Western Europe is inherently different from Eastern Europe? If you take in enough migrants from impoverished parts of the world, you think things will always just remain the same?

Western Europe is richer.

By and large, they are a success. They have all the ingredients to bake the cake, Rule of Law, democracy and the greater levels of freedom that implies. Those 2 go together, Putin is as much a gangster as he is a leader, with extravagant levels of corruption.

But you don't need an intricate level of knowledge to explain the why...

You already know Russia sucks, and France does not. If you had to chose between the two, we already know which one you would pick.

Have a cup of coffee, and wake the F up.

[Puffer Fish]

Western Europe is richer.

By and large, they are a success. They have all the ingredients to bake the cake, Rule of Law, democracy and the greater levels of freedom that implies.

All things you take for granted and assume will never go away.

Putin being a dictator has nothing to do with the difference in living standards.

[late]

All things you take for granted and assume will never go away.

Putin being a dictator has nothing to do with the difference in living standards.

Are you daft? Everyone in the West with 2 brain cells to rub together is freaking out Trump could win. MSNBC talks about that all day, every day.

Actually, it does. The Economist thinks Putin increased corruption by about 20%, and it was already corrupt. His actions were discouraging foreign investment long before he invaded Ukraine for a 2nd time. Google Curse of Oil...

By and large, the Modern world is a package deal. With few exceptions, anything beyond minor deviations costs plenty. Something you could do is study the history of capitalism.