What EU should do about energy dependency - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#1052909
Instead of surrendering itself to the thought of becoming Russian puppet EU should reconsider ways that will both end its dependency on Russia and stimulated scientific and economic growth.
In terms of priority and possibility of success/
1.EU should fund major studies on biofuels-in cooperation with USA and China. All interested sides face energy problems and both USA and China are having good progress in research on gene modification. EU could use its good relations with both sides to act as mediator and help to stabilise world relations. Not only would EU benefit directly in terms of research and potential energy sources, but its role as international mediator would increase. The large amounts of agricultural land in EU that has to be funded by CAP could be turned into something usefull.
2. Fund research related to solar energy such as solar power satellites and solar towers. Thus should be done with cooperation of USA (NASA) and ESA. Currently both NASA and ESA are engaging in ambitious projects such Orion and Aurora. NASA is interested in going into Moon which has been hinted as possible source of material for solar cells for SPS. Cooperation in such matter would increase trans-atlantic ties also. EU should also make treaties creating a status of EU partner countries that would have closer ties to EU and potential membership and adress them to countries such as Algeria and Morroco. Which are less populated and ideal candidates for Solar Towers or receiving stations for SPS.
3. Increase international cooperation on ITER.


All those attempts would be more creative and potentially beneficial to EU then surrendering to Russia. Sadly I doubt such visions exist in EU as it lacks the spirit and sould of creativity and Germany is determined to pursue alliance with Russia at all costs, and would likely block attempts to stop Russian dependency.
User avatar
By stannis
#1052931
At least Shade2 makes a post I fully agree with. Bravo for using your brain instead to succumbing to your typical paranoia-posts.

Yes, we do very much need to develop new energy sources - I just hope there is the political will for it :hmm:
User avatar
By Ombrageux
#1052947
Hear about the new fusion power plant they're going to build (effort includes EU, US, Russia and Japan)? Sounds pretty awesome, it's going to cost 10 billion $ over several decades.

It might be a total failure, who knows, it makes it feel like Science still holds some promise. (makes nuclear power plants, not war)
User avatar
By Kiroff
#1052964
---//Theodore
Come on, Kiroff, everybody knows how much us Russomongols love the smell of burning oil in the morning. You know, that smell...

Smells like subjugation of Poland.


Shit, so that's why I always liked gas stations.

---//else

Oh, I have another plan for that, which is just as possible:

A race of benevolent aliens invades EU, gives them an infinete power source and abducts(space saucer ray) Germany and Russia. The world becomes a Utopia because all the evil is gone.

---//DumbTeen
Hear about the new fusion power plant they're going to build (effort includes EU, US, Russia and Japan)? Sounds pretty awesome, it's going to cost 10 billion $ over several decades.

It might be a total failure, who knows, it makes it feel like Science still holds some promise. (makes nuclear power plants, not war)


They already started building it.

Image

Are fusion bombs possible? That would be awesome!

/goes back to playing RA2: Yuri's Revenge.

---//stannis
Yes, we do very much need to develop new energy sources - I just hope there is the political will for it


So the hippies were wrong after all?
User avatar
By Kiroff
#1052977
You know, they were all "Down with nucular energy blah blah blah..."

At least here in the States.

I guess being rich is more important nowadays so no one cares.

Sit, I'm turning into Quatz.
User avatar
By stannis
#1052980
In Ireland we don't use nuclear power so it's considered a 'new' energy source, if we ever decide to use it. I'm not sure if I support it yet though.
User avatar
By Kiroff
#1052987
Well, there have been no accidents besides Chernobyl and Seven Mile Island(US), so you should be pretty safe.

Besides, those reactors were some of the first built. The newer ones are much safer.
User avatar
By stannis
#1052988
You may be right - though I'd rather see nuclear fusion in Ireland :p

That would be quite a feat.
User avatar
By Thunderhawk
#1053018
China and the USA are becoming close business bed-buddies. They dont need EU mediation, and would probably resent it.


China is currently researching/implementing a coal to gas technology. Since Poland has MASSIVE coal reserves, perhabs Poland should get in on this conversion tech?







stannis wrote:In Ireland we don't use nuclear power so it's considered a 'new' energy source, if we ever decide to use it. I'm not sure if I support it yet though.


Isnt there a nuclear power plant in N.Ireland?



Kiroff wrote:Well, there have been no accidents besides Chernobyl and Seven Mile Island(US), so you should be pretty safe.


THREE mile island.
.. Theres also the recent hickup at the St. Petersburg powerplant.
By Shade2
#1053196
Hear about the new fusion power plant they're going to build (effort includes EU, US, Russia and Japan)? Sounds pretty awesome, it's going to cost 10 billion $ over several decades.

It will take decades, they are more promising (but less powerfull) potential methods-mainly biofuels from modified plants or algea.


China is currently researching/implementing a coal to gas technology. Since Poland has MASSIVE coal reserves, perhabs Poland should get in on this conversion tech?

Our former Prime Minister Buzek is lobbying in EU to fund such research program in Silesia, also USA firm which has such plant has engaged in talks.



A race of benevolent aliens invades EU, gives them an infinete power source and abducts(space saucer ray) Germany and Russia. The world becomes a Utopia because all the evil is gone.

Yes, without those two countries the world would be a lot better place. They are responsible for most of major conflicts. Other potential powers are either concentrated inward or helpfull.
By Cyricus
#1053464
They restored indepedence of my country two times for example.

Damn, and here i am thinking (almost) total dependency on German/Russian goods, foreign investment in order to counter your high unemployment rate and being "forced" (as you so eloquently put it in another thread) into the EU makes Poland super dependent on other countries, lol.
User avatar
By soron
#1053526
1.EU should fund major studies on biofuels-in cooperation with USA and China. All interested sides face energy problems and both USA and China are having good progress in research on gene modification. EU could use its good relations with both sides to act as mediator and help to stabilise world relations. Not only would EU benefit directly in terms of research and potential energy sources, but its role as international mediator would increase. The large amounts of agricultural land in EU that has to be funded by CAP could be turned into something usefull.


I think other countries have more experience in that field. South American countries have been using alcohol ever since the first oil crisis in the seventies, and afaik they're also the largest producers of ethanol.
Genetic research isn't exactly necessary for this. It has been suggested 25 years ago to use manioc (or tapioca if you prefer the expression) root which will yield more sugar than sugar cane or sugarbeets. It's also easy to grow on almost any soil and at altitudes between sea level and 4000 m.


2. Fund research related to solar energy such as solar power satellites and solar towers. Thus should be done with cooperation of USA (NASA) and ESA. Currently both NASA and ESA are engaging in ambitious projects such Orion and Aurora. NASA is interested in going into Moon which has been hinted as possible source of material for solar cells for SPS. Cooperation in such matter would increase trans-atlantic ties also. EU should also make treaties creating a status of EU partner countries that would have closer ties to EU and potential membership and adress them to countries such as Algeria and Morroco. Which are less populated and ideal candidates for Solar Towers or receiving stations for SPS.


If you're interested in Solar energy, the Plataforma Solar de Almeria is the place to go. It's a European Research project on various types of solar energy. The most interesting of those isn't direct electricity from solar cells but installations like DISS that heat fluids and create energy from there. The intersting part is that you can transport the hot fluids to a reservoir in order to use those during nighttime when solar cells would not produce energy.
Info: http://www.psa.es/webeng/index.html
User avatar
By stannis
#1053613
Isnt there a nuclear power plant in N.Ireland?


Northern Ireland is not Ireland.
By Wolf
#1053668
Hi Europe!
Get to know the country you're just about to make yourself dependent of. That's what might happen if Russia feels like bullying its neighbours:

Today:
Official: Gas Pipe Blast not to Hinder Supplies in Georgia
2006-11-24 14:08:42
http://www.civil.ge/eng/article.php?id=14169

An explosion damaged the North Caucasus-Trans Caucasus gas pipeline in Russia’s North Ossetia on November 24, Russian RIA Novosti news agency reported.

A gas leak was cited as the cause of the explosion.

Georgian Deputy Energy Minister Alexander Khetaguri said at a news conference that the explosion will not affect Georgia, “as Georgia was not receiving gas from this pipeline.”

“Georgia faces no danger in gas supplies. The pipeline that was damaged is not used for importing Russian gas - it is an internal Russian pipeline,” Khetaguri said.

Two simultaneous explosions - one on the North Caucasus-Trans Caucasus gas pipeline and another on the reserve Mozdok-Tbilisi pipeline - cut Russian gas deliveries to Georgia in January 2006, triggering an energy crisis in the country.



Earlier this month:
Gazprom Wants to Double Gas Price
2006-11-02 12:43:52
http://www.civil.ge/eng/article.php?id=14003

Russia’s energy giant Gazprom said it wants to increase the gas price for Georgia from the current USD 110 to USD 230 per 1000 cubic meters starting from 2007, Interfax news agency reported on November 2.

Georgian Deputy Energy Minister Alexander Khetaguri told Civil Georgia on November 2 that no official notification has been received from the Russian side about the new price proposal.

The gas distribution company in Tbilisi, owned by the Kazakh state-run KazTransGaz, said on November 2 that it also has not received any official notification from Gazprom.



Last winter:

Gas Crisis Hits Russo-Georgian Ties
2006-01-23 14:11:12
http://www.civil.ge/eng/article.php?id=11577


The energy crisis that has resulted from two gas lines being destroyed in North Ossetia on Sunday will be solved for consumers in Tbilisi, as Russia began delivering gas to Georgia via Azerbaijan late on January 22, but Georgia’s regions will suffer a gas shortage for at least one week.

Currently, 3 million cubic meters of gas per day is being delivered via Azerbaijan, which is enough for consumers in Tbilisi and for operation of the 9th power generator in Gardabani alone. Georgia requires a total of 7 million cubic meters of gas per day to supply gas to the whole country.

Round-the-clock rehabilitation works are underway to restore the damaged pipelines, Russian news agencies reported.

The crisis erupted when two gas pipelines were blown up in Russia’s North Ossetian republic early on January 22. Russia qualified the incident as a “terrorist act,” while Tbilisi has accused Moscow of orchestating a deliberate “energy sabotage” against Georgia.

Accusations were voiced by the Georgian President, Interior Minister and Parliamentary Chairperson, as well as by some senior parliamentarians.

President Saakashvili made a strong-worded statements on January 22 describing Russia “as unprincipled blackmailer” and accusing Moscow of sabotaging Georgia, but provided no evidence for these claims. He also said that Russia wants to take over the Georgian gas pipeline network.

Tbilisi’s accusations were described by the Russian Foreign Ministry as “hysteria.”

Later on January 22 President Saakashvili slightly softened his stance and said in an interview with CNN: “I'm not accusing anybody. I'm just asking questions. It looks dubious at the very least.”

On January 23 Russian Ambassador in Tbilisi Vladimir Chkhikvishvili convened a press conference and questioned Tbilisi’s “logic in accusing Russia” of masterminding the explosions at the pipelines.

He said if Russia wanted to masterminded a “so-called energy sabotage” Moscow would not have organized for an alternate supply of gas to come to Georgia via Azerbaijan.

While commenting on gas being delivered from Azerbaijan, Georgian officials avoided mentioning the fact that the gas was supplied by Russia and were saying instead that the gas was delivered on the bases of a bilateral agreement between Tbilisi and Baku reached last year.

The Russian diplomat also said at a news conference that statements made by the Georgian officials about Russia's so-called ‘energy blackmail’ of Georgia were also “very surprising” against the background of persisting large-scale energy investment programs being carried out by Russian companies in Georgia.

He said that one of the examples of these investments is the opening of a gas turbine electricity generator scheduled for January 23.

“Maybe some of you do not know the fact that the purchase of these two gas turbines was financed by the Russian side. [The Russian bank] VneshTorgBank has spent, according to the official preliminary information, about USD 40 million [for this project]. There are also many other additional energy projects [going on in Georgia],” Vladimir Chkhikvishvili said.

Speaking at an emergency session of the National Security Council late on January 22 President Saakashvili commented on this gas turbine electricity generator, but did not say anything about Russian investments in this project. He said that although “there is no gas now, we will open this gas turbine anyway just to spite our enemies.”

Russian Ambassador Chkhikvishvili said that statements made by the Georgian officials were a “very serious blow to Russian-Georgian relations.”

“So the [reasonable nature] of future cooperation with new energy projects is now questionable,” the Russian diplomat added.


They just adore when 4 million people freeze in the winter, when temperature goes down. And the only crime of those people is that they want to develop into modern, european, democratic society - as a part of Europe.

Think twice before you make yourself dependent on Russian gas.
User avatar
By stannis
#1053671
Think twice before you make yourself dependent on Russian gas.


Do not blanket-accuse Europeans of wanting to be dependant on Russian gas. We know what Russia can do to those that displease it and not too many Europeans are happy about having to negotiate with Moscow.
User avatar
By soron
#1053695
The Poles beef with the Russians has to do with Moscow's refusal to allow the import of Polish meat and other food products. Putin claims that the ban has to do with quality issues -- and with the ease with which questionable products can cross the border into Russia. At a news conference ahead of the summit, Putin affirmed his country's position by saying, "Poland must not protect the interests of swindlers and crooks involved in smuggling which hits local producers."

Warsaw, though, is convinced that the ban is more punitive in nature. Poland's westward political course following the collapse of communism raised hackles in neighboring Russia -- and Warsaw's energetic support for Ukraine's Viktor Yushchenko during his 2004 political battle against pro-Russian Viktor Yanukovych worsened the relationship even further.

Indeed, Poland had been hoping for EU support in its efforts to get the ban lifted. Instead, its insistence on vetoing the mandate has earned the country criticism. "The solidarity that Poland demands from its partners will rather be weakened (by the veto)," Joachim Wuermeling, a senior German official with the economy ministry, told the German economic daily Handelsblatt. "If the EU doesn't speak with one voice to its suppliers, it will lose out in the worldwide competition for resources."


http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,450496,00.html
User avatar
By dannymu
#1053698
I actually agree with Shade's proposals. However the EU or at least some EU countries prefer to work within the EU and compete with the US instead of cooperating with the US. That's the problem with the EU and those who want the EU to be a single voice representing all EU countries in the world scene.
User avatar
By stannis
#1053702
That's the problem with the EU and those who want the EU to be a single voice representing all EU countries in the world scene.


I have no problem with that whatsoever. There is such a thing as European civilisation and I believe it must be united and independent. I look forward to the day when EU members can put aside difference to stand united in the face of an unstable world.
User avatar
By dannymu
#1053705
There is such a thing as European civilisation and I believe it must be united and independent.

There are lots of linguistic, cultural and historical differences for Europe to be considered a civilisation as a whole.

I look forward to the day when EU members can put aside difference to stand united in the face of an unstable world.

Do you mean a European Super-State or this United States of Europe?
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