- 14 May 2003 18:39
#11142
and now have some things that I truly do not like about communism:
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... o/ch02.htm
So religion must be abolished, and freedom and justice must be abolished?
Communism acts in contradiction to all past historical experience? So the communists will ignore all historical precedents from the past and make the same mistakes that governments have done before?
Bullshit! Marx twists the words to imply that you have to share all your money to people that don't have it only because it is "social power."
My family has worked for my welfare, I will not share it by force.
So I was right after all, communism is about taking everybody down.
What is so wrong with being married? Burgeois oppression? Ha! Marx was a conspiracy freak or something?
Yeah, right. It is to take the burgeoisie down.
Fuck that, some people have earned their property, why will it be taken away?
That seems OK.
My family has worked for me. Some people work for their children, why should they not do it?
So you want to leave your fucked up country, and your property is confiscated? Now I see where Cuba comes in, people who want to go away have to desperately get in rafts in shark-infested waters to escape from that torn down country to find a better future for themselves.
Yes, that's alright.
Now I see where Stalin's collectivisation is based. Why should I be obligated to work? In a free market I starve if I don't work, that should be it.
That sounds OK too.
So it will be to establish another ruling class. That is hypocritical. The aim should be to have no ruling class at all.
That is just the second chapter, I will read the other ones when I have the time.
If anyone here is willing to discuss it, I am going to discuss communism, not capitalism. I know the evils of capitalism, I just think there should be another alternative to capitalism.
"Undoubtedly," it will be said, "religious, moral, philosophical, and juridical ideas have been modified in the course of historical development. But religion, morality, philosophy, political science, and law, constantly survived this change."
"There are, besides, eternal truths, such as Freedom, Justice, etc., that are common to all states of society. But communism abolishes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality, instead of constituting them on a new basis; it therefore acts in contradiction to all past historical experience."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... o/ch02.htm
So religion must be abolished, and freedom and justice must be abolished?
Communism acts in contradiction to all past historical experience? So the communists will ignore all historical precedents from the past and make the same mistakes that governments have done before?
When, therefore, capital is converted into common property, into the property of all members of society, personal property is not thereby transformed into social property. It is only the social character of the property that is changed. It loses its class character.
Bullshit! Marx twists the words to imply that you have to share all your money to people that don't have it only because it is "social power."
In one word, you reproach us with intending to do away with your property. Precisely so; that is just what we intend.
My family has worked for my welfare, I will not share it by force.
You must, therefore, confess that by "individual" you mean no other person than the bourgeois, than the middle-class owner of property. This person must, indeed, be swept out of the way, and made impossible.
So I was right after all, communism is about taking everybody down.
Bourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in common and thus, at the most, what the Communists might possibly be reproached with is that they desire to introduce, in substitution for a hypocritically concealed, an openly legalized system of free love. For the rest, it is self-evident that the abolition of the present system of production must bring with it the abolition of free love springing from that system, i.e., of prostitution both public and private.
What is so wrong with being married? Burgeois oppression? Ha! Marx was a conspiracy freak or something?
We have seen above that the first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class to win the battle of democracy.
Yeah, right. It is to take the burgeoisie down.
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
Fuck that, some people have earned their property, why will it be taken away?
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
That seems OK.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
My family has worked for me. Some people work for their children, why should they not do it?
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
So you want to leave your fucked up country, and your property is confiscated? Now I see where Cuba comes in, people who want to go away have to desperately get in rafts in shark-infested waters to escape from that torn down country to find a better future for themselves.
5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
Yes, that's alright.
8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
Now I see where Stalin's collectivisation is based. Why should I be obligated to work? In a free market I starve if I don't work, that should be it.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.
That sounds OK too.
If the proletariat during its contest with the bourgeoisie is compelled, by the force of circumstances, to organize itself as a class; if, by means of a revolution, it makes itself the ruling class, and, as such, sweeps away by force the old conditions of production, then it will, along with these conditions, have swept away the conditions for the existence of class antagonisms and of classes generally, and will thereby have abolished its own supremacy as a class.
So it will be to establish another ruling class. That is hypocritical. The aim should be to have no ruling class at all.
That is just the second chapter, I will read the other ones when I have the time.
If anyone here is willing to discuss it, I am going to discuss communism, not capitalism. I know the evils of capitalism, I just think there should be another alternative to capitalism.