Holocaust's 2nd generation demands compensation from Germany - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By dannymu
#1179079
I will now demand a HUGE compensation from the all countries that belonged to the Soviet Union and Mozambique for religious persecution on my dad during the 1970s.
By Trooper
#1179095
German magazine:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1 ... 01,00.html

Holocaust Survivors Still Owed Up to $175 Billion


A new study reveals that Holocaust survivors are still owed as much as $175 billion in restitution payments, six decades after the Shoah. Meanwhile efforts to open up a key German Holocaust archive have stalled.

The new study has reopened the at-times virulent debate over how best to help elderly Holocaust survivors in Europe, the US and Israel, many of whom are very poor.

"Things are moving much too slowly," Menachem Rosensaft from the International Network of Children of Jewish Holocaust Survivors told Reuters.

There have been a number of high-profile restitution cases in Germany in recent months, as valuable paintings and property have been returned to Jewish victims of the Holocaust and their families.
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By satan
#1179117
This should do wonders for the abolishment of the stereotype of greedy Jews.
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By Tailz
#1179328
GrumpyEuropean, I am not going to bother writing an answer to every one of your fanciful statements as I think your convoluted reasoning is just pure rubbish.

I will simply restate my position...

Those whom were involved in the crimes of the Second World War, must and should be punished according to their involvement in those crimes. The victims of those crimes should be compensated in some way relevant to their involvement as victims of those crimes. The Generations who come after - on both the side of the victim, and the criminal - should not be compensated or punished for crimes they played no part in.
By Shade2
#1179430
So when will it stop, when can we stop punishing a county for the crimes of previous leaders, after the third generation, after the 4th generation?


Considering the fact that people who mass murdered thousands of civilians enjoyed succesfull political carriers in post-war Germany and Germany never paid for destruction of Poland I think there is still a lot that Germany has to do before making such claims.
The Generations who come after - on both the side of the victim, and the criminal - should not be compensated or punished for crimes they played no part in.

Germany was allowed to exist, despite the fact it started two world wars with aim of destroying whole nations. Germany still exists due to mercy of its victims. If you want to avoid justice for what Germany did dissolve it to pre-unification states. I assure you that will be met with relief by many.
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By Blondie
#1179449
Jew Parent: Sorry kids, but the germans won't give us any money for great-grandpa's time in a concentration camp. Who wants to go rob Hitler's grave?
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By Tailz
#1179563
Shade2 wrote:
Considering the fact that people who mass murdered thousands of civilians enjoyed succesfull political carriers in post-war Germany and Germany never paid for destruction of Poland I think there is still a lot that Germany has to do before making such claims.

Oh here we go again, your claim Germany never dished out anything for Poland. As I have said before, go and chase Russia - since their the ones who ended up with it.

You can't blame the Germany of today for the shit kicking after the war the Soviets gave Poland - but I suppose you will anyway.

Germany was allowed to exist, despite the fact it started two world wars with aim of destroying whole nations. Germany still exists due to mercy of its victims. If you want to avoid justice for what Germany did dissolve it to pre-unification states. I assure you that will be met with relief by many.

Germany exists today because to wipe it out would require the wholesale slaughter of many innocent people as well as removing a large mass of water and earth from our planet - that would be the only way to remove Germany. Personally I have a problem with the wholesale slaughter of innocent people - by the sound of it you don't.

As to its starting of two world wars, well here your wrong as well. Yes its true Hitler picked a fight with pretty much everyone, but the First World War was not started by Germany. On the 28th of June 1914, Archduke Franz Ferdinand of the Austro-Hungarian Empire was assassinated by Gavrilo Princip (a member of the Young Bosnia group, with the assassination organized by the Black Hand secret society) in Sarajevo. It was this assassination that prompted the Austro-Hungarian government to send an ultimatum to Serbia on the 23rd of July 1914, which Serbia rejected. The Serbians, relying on support from Russia, ordered mobilization. Austria-Hungary issued a declaration of war on the 28th of July 1914. Initially, Russia ordered partial mobilization, directed at the Austrian frontier. On the 31st of July 1914, after the Russian General Staff informed the Czar that partial mobilization was logistically impossible, a full mobilization was ordered. The Schlieffen Plan (a plan devised in 1905 after the Franco-Prussian War), which relied on a quick strike against France, could not afford to allow the Russians to mobilize without launching an attack. Thus, the Germans declared war against Russia on the 1st of August 1914, and on France two days later (this was because France allied itself with Russia before 1914 as a counterweight to Germany's allies). The Germans immediately launched an invasion of Luxembourg and Belgium. This violated Belgium's neutrality and led to a British declaration of war against Germany on the 4th of August 1914. After the war German diplomats were forced to sign a treaty that placed the whole blame for starting the First World War upon Germanies shoulders, this was done by a full blockaid of food stuffs going to Germany - which in turn caused mass starvation - the Allied powers continued the blockaid until German diplomats signed the document.
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By ThereBeDragons
#1179622
Germany should provide for psychological benefits of children of Holocaust survivors the same way they would provide for psychological benefits for children, say, whose parents were brutally murdered or who were abused as children.

(I'm not equating the actions of the parents with anything of the sort, I'm just saying that it's one of those environmental things that's terrible, but that nobody shoulders the responsibility for.)

I don't know if any exists.
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By Tailz
#1179626
ThereBeYe wrote:
Germany should provide for psychological benefits of children of Holocaust survivors the same way they would provide for psychological benefits for children, say, whose parents were brutally murdered or who were abused as children.

So can I get compensation from Japan for the tramua my grandpa suffered fighting against the Japs during WWII?

I feel his pian!

Honest I do... see ... my big toe twitches.
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By ThereBeDragons
#1179634
Honest I do... see ... my big toe twitches.

I'll see to it that a government-funded toe amputation is on the way.
By Shade2
#1179904
Oh here we go again, your claim Germany never dished out anything for Poland

Why it seems you like very much to ignore my question why Germans who mass murdered tens of thousands of Poles enjoyed a succesfull political life in post-war Germany and were like by population so much that it elected them in elections to be their representatives.

Your claim "dished out" is quite disrespectfull considering the fact that Germany destroyed and plundered our land so much that even today we are rebuilding from this destruction. And yet Germany, this Germany that likes to boast how superior morally it is to the "Amis" never felt any obligation to repair the damage it has done to nation it wanted to exterminate as subhumans-I wonder if the fact that 40% of Germans say Nazism had good sides has anything to do with it...
As I have said before, go and chase Russia - since their the ones who ended up with it.

Why should I blame Russia for Germany's wrongdoings ?

You can't blame the Germany of today for the shit kicking after the war the Soviets gave Poland - but I suppose you will anyway.

WTF are you saying. In case you forgot Germany occupied Poland from 1939 to 1944 and in that time it plundered whole country, robbed everything valuable, razed whole cities, burned whole villages, towns to the ground. I guess you are incapable to see Germany as anything other as holy and innocent, guess to you only the 'barbarians from the east' are capable of destroying something and robbery-not the "superior Germans". How typical.

Germany exists today because to wipe it out would require the wholesale slaughter of many innocent people as well as removing a large mass of water and earth from our planet - that would be the only way to remove Germany.

LOL-you are an amusing ultra-nationalist to believe Germany is part of natural order as much as mountains and earth. I guess Hitler and his friend had similiar views :lol: You know-Germany is really just an artificial state created on land-it can dissapear any time.Czechoslovakia was dissolved without any bloodshed and removal of earth-so can Germany. And so it should-considering it murdered tens of milions of people, wanted to exterminate whole nations and started two world wars. Its clear that German aggression and nationalism are returning-seen for example here by your revisionism and denial of Germany's destruction of Poland. Germany is a menace to world community and it would be better to return it to situation similiar before 1871. We also should encourage growth of local identities like Hannoverian or Bavarian identity, because the German one is based on Prussian values- and knowing that Prussia was a state created out of crusade and genocide its no wonder Germany made holocaust. German identity should give place to Saxon, Bavarian identity to avoid genocidal Prussian culture to flourish.

Yes its true Hitler picked a fight with pretty much everyone

What is this country "Hitler" ? I was writing about Germany not about any Hitlerland. Oh I forgot-Germany is holy and innocent-it was evil Hitler that led the war himself and alone, while poor innocent Germans watched helplessly.


but the First World War was not started by Germany.

Your revisionism won't get you far, while the actions that in the end led to war might have not been on the territory of Germany-it was Germany that wanted war because its politicians desired to conquer land in the east and settle it with Germans in order to create German empire that could dominate the world.
Already in In 1887 Bernhard von Bülow the future chancellor of Germany advocated a future armed conflict in Europe that will allow Germany to ethnicly cleanse Polish population from Germany.
Hostages of Modernization: Studies on Modern Antisemitism 1870-1933-39 Germany
page 35.
So you see, revisionism won't get you far.
Germany wanted war from the start to satisfy its imperialistic dreams of world hegemony.
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By Tailz
#1180545
Let me try and write this in simple and easy to understand terms and paragraphs for you to understand Shade2, even though I think you will just rave and babble again anyway.

I completely and wholeheartedly agree with you that Germany should pay or make amends for the damages and suffering that it caused to not only Poland, but all states and peoples it caused suffering to.

But this "punishment" should only be applied once, not several times, and nether should it be never ending.

Those parties effected (state or individuals) should get some form of compensation (money, building works, etc), there should be some formal public statement along with remembrance - so that we don't forget or let it happen again.

Now i will turn and answer some of your statements directly relating to Poland. To my understanding Germany has already given a form of compensation for damages to Poland during the time Poland was under Communist rule. The unfortunate problem was that Poland was under Soviet domination, and got a raw deal over what reperations would actualy get to Poland from the Soviet leadership. In essence Germany gave reperations for damages to Poland, and the soviets kept it and didn't give much to Poland apart from Annexed German land - But then again the Soviets Annexed Polish land into Soviet Russia too.

Wikipedia: War reparations / Post-World War II / Post-World War II, according to the Yalta conference 4th - 11th of February 1945;
Poland was to be compensated with German territory in exchange for Polish territory being annexed by the Soviet Union. The exact new border with Germany was to be determined later. In the end Germany lost roughly 25% of her territory to Poland and the Soviet Union. (see Oder-Neisse line) Polish territory also decreased, as the Soviet Union annexed the Kresy region.

So in the end although Germany did give compensation which was for damages to Poland, the Poles were left out in the cold by the Soviets who kept what was largely meant for Poland apart from what the Soviets could not take with them (the annexed land).

Your revisionism won't get you far, while the actions that in the end led to war might have not been on the territory of Germany-it was Germany that wanted war because its politicians desired to conquer land in the east and settle it with Germans in order to create German empire that could dominate the world.
Already in In 1887 Bernhard von Bülow the future chancellor of Germany advocated a future armed conflict in Europe that will allow Germany to ethnicly cleanse Polish population from Germany.
Hostages of Modernization: Studies on Modern Antisemitism 1870-1933-39 Germany
page 35.
So you see, revisionism won't get you far.
Germany wanted war from the start to satisfy its imperialistic dreams of world hegemony.

How is it Revisionism when its accepted history?
By Shade2
#1180574
Wikipedia: War reparations / Post-World War II / Post-World War II, according to the Yalta conference 4th - 11th of February 1945;

What ? wikipedia ? You are joking right using that thrash ?
The quote is complete BS-Poland never signed any treaty in which it considered those regained Polish territories that it had to rebuild till today "war reperations". I removed this incorrect sentence.
The unfortunate problem was that Poland was under Soviet domination, and got a raw deal over what reperations would actualy get to Poland from the Soviet leadership.

That is YOUR problem-since Poland never signed any treaty with Germany the issue remains open. Germany and Soviet Union might have signed some treaty, but Poland did not.And since you agree that Soviets never did what they promised to Germany-Poland has every right to demand war reperations.


In essence Germany gave reperations for damages to Poland

No they gave it to Soviet Union-not to Poland which didn't sign any treaty like that.
It would be like Soviet Union signing treaty with Japan about Britain getting compensation from Japan through USA. Surely nobody serious would believe the British have no right for compensation because somebody else talked about them in treaty signed with third country.


How is it Revisionism when its accepted history?

As much as claiming Great Britain started WW2 because it declared war on Germany.


And gentle reminder:
You still avoid the question I ask you over and over:
Why Germans who mass murdered tens of thousands of Poles enjoyed a succesfull political life in post-war Germany and were like by population so much that it elected them in elections to be their representatives.
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By Tailz
#1180710
Sahe2 wrote:
What ? wikipedia ? You are joking right using that thrash ?
The quote is complete BS-Poland never signed any treaty in which it considered those regained Polish territories that it had to rebuild till today "war reperations". I removed this incorrect sentence.

Heh, now thats funny, you went and changed Wikipedia....

Why Germans who mass murdered tens of thousands of Poles enjoyed a succesfull political life in post-war Germany and were like by population so much that it elected them in elections to be their representatives.

And which Germans are those? Have you got any names so I can go and lookup some background details?
By Shade2
#1181054
Heh, now thats funny, you went and changed Wikipedia....

It was wrong so I corrected it. What's wrong ? Have you forgotten anyone can edit Wikipedia ? Meaning its useless ?

And which Germans are those?

Heinz Reinefarth for example. Hans Kruger for example.
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By Tailz
#1181721
Shade2 wrote:
It was wrong so I corrected it. What's wrong ? Have you forgotten anyone can edit Wikipedia ? Meaning its useless ?

It was wrong, heh, your being funny again.

How is this incorrect?

Post-World War II, according to the Yalta conference 4th - 11th of February 1945;
Poland was to be compensated with German territory in exchange for Polish territory being annexed by the Soviet Union. The exact new border with Germany was to be determined later. In the end Germany lost roughly 25% of her territory to Poland and the Soviet Union. (see Oder-Neisse line) Polish territory also decreased, as the Soviet Union annexed the Kresy region.

Did not territory change hands? Were not the borders redrawn in acordance with the Yalta Conference? Did not the Soviet Union annex the Kresy region?

Having just looked at the Wiki page again, it seems someone disagrees with your point of view and has changed the information again - back to what it was.

Heinz Reinefarth for example. Hans Kruger for example.

To be quite honest I have never really heard of these people. But assumeing there is enough evidence of their crimes, a punishment equel to the crime should be leveled. Do you know if they have already been punished?

But I know there are a number of people around the world who were involved in Nazi crimes who are yet to be tracked down and put on trial - and I support doing so, just as much as I support putting on trial the soldiers from our own side who commited crimes also.

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