In capitalism man exploits man. In communism it's the other way around
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Not all battles can be won by fighting. We're small we can not bullly back the bullies. Only thing wise to do with Russia is just to stand like a brick wall when they try something wierd and bear whatever they throw at us. Take it easy, step by step and move on hoping to normalize the relations in time. There really isn't any better solution - it's impossible to do with out them and it's impossible and unwise to make them our puppet so step by step towards normal relations and to play a brick wall sometimes not to let them influence our internal politics too much.
On the other hand Russian officials continue to claim that Soviets "liberated" Europe.
Actucally yes. It is closly surounded by 3 roads, leaving there a quite small ground. Moreover a trollybus stop was right in front of it so even more traffic.
When you were speaking of sanctions then it wasn't "we're talking of cyberwar"
The article can say alot of things
Can you explain why tens of thousands, as desrcibed in the article, would all of the sudden visit a site at once?
You have to ask yourself here though, who is responsible for these Russians being so pissed off? Maybe the state-sponsored propaganda...
Th, the People who liberated â‚¬urope were the brave Polish soldiers...
Please, remind us how the Czech territory was annexed by Poland on October 2, 1938.
there's simply no *evidence* for someone reading this thread at this point to believe 'General Putin' instructed the FSB to bombard Estonian websites. Indeed the evidence seems to be that DDoS attacks have come from thousands of servers, mainly disconnected with the state, around Russia and the World.
You seem to have misunderstood what I was saying. Because the nature of the 'attack' is often simply having lots of people visit a website and because an individual may have legitimate reasons to visit a website, it's pretty hard to mount a case against such an individual unless they've gone somewhere 1000 times or something.... that's if you can trace them to begin with.
As of right now, we cannot be sure.
It could have been leigitimate reasons, but what are the odds tens of thousands of people with legitimate reasons would visit the site all at once?
The Russian Foreign Office vs "Tygodnik Powszechny"
"InoSMI", a popular Russian internet portal, last week published a strongly anti-Ukrainian article and cited it as a translation fromâ€¦ "Tygodnik Powszechny". In reality, the offending article had never been issued by "TP". According to Polish analysts in Russian affairs, it was not a mistake, but rather a deliberate attempt to mislead.
Tygodnik Powszechny 13/2005
by Malgorzata Nocun, Andrzej Brzeziecki, Wojciech Pieciak
Itâ€™s the question our Ukrainian friends were asking us last Thursday, March 17.: â€˜Why are you publishing such filth?â€™ Theyâ€™ve been calling us all morning, more and more intensively as each hour progresses as they continue to read the article on a Russian website, allegedly published by â€˜Tygodnikâ€™, complete with our logo and date of release. An author was Marian Kaluski. A headline sounded like a challenge: â€œLetâ€™s speak out about the Ukraineâ€.
Indeed, on a main page of www.inosmi.ru, right next to â€˜TPâ€™ logo and a photomontage of exeptionally unflattering Viktor Yushchenkoâ€™s potmarked face with the Polish white eagle in the background, there was a text asserting that e.g.: â€œPoland should support everything leading to the Ukraineâ€™s divisionâ€.
â€˜InoSMIâ€™ is a large and respectable website, popular among Russians, Ukrainians and Byelorussians, as it specializes in foreign press monitoring and prepares translations onto Russian language. Large numbers of former USSR nationals visit it.
Why did someone choose to publish such a manipulation? Was it accidental?
We contacted the â€˜InoSMIâ€™ Moscow office. Being switched from one person to another, we were trying to convince anyone who would listen that the article had never been published by â€˜Tygodnikâ€™. Obviously, somebody has submitted the article, but as a comment on an internet forum administered by â€˜Onet.plâ€™ (â€˜Tygodnikâ€™ has been associated with that site for quite some time). However, it is obvious that forum contributorsâ€™ comments published beneath such articles are not associated with the newspaper from which an article originates. Besides, â€˜Onet.plâ€™ clearly displays a disclaimer informing readers that such comments are private opinions of readers.
Despite numerous phone calls, Russian editors shifting on the other side of the wire persisted in articulating their right to publish the article as originating from â€˜Tygodnikâ€™ and refused to remove our logo. Despite our pointing out that this was negligent disinformation and manipulation. The offending piece remained in its entirety until evening, when after our explicit demands (or rather, those from fellow journalists representing other, both Russian and Ukrainian media who had also contacted â€˜InoSMIâ€™), thy finally removed â€˜Tygodnikâ€™sâ€™ logo. But the photomontage of Viktor Yushchenko and the actual text remained... only the logo changed. This time, the â€˜Wirtualna Poloniaâ€™ portal was posted as a source (it should be mentioned that this portalâ€™s profile is radically right-winged, with special emphasis on the term â€œradicalâ€).
â€˜InoSMIâ€™ obtained Kaluskiâ€™s article not by accident, but instead, through actions of the Russian Ministry for Foreign Affairs. â€œSomeone from this ministry made the suggestion to publish it and presented is as originating from â€˜TPâ€™ â€, the editor-in-chief of â€˜InoSMIâ€™ has finally admitted it clearly, when speaking with â€˜Gazeta Wyborczaâ€™ daily (March 18.). He dinâ€™t reveal, however, who had done it.
Since itâ€™s known that it was Russian Ministry for Foreign Affairs who released the disinformation, it would be perhaps proper for Polish Foreign Office to engage itself and, at least, to ask Russians for explanations? It is a matter of fact that this action aimed into dignity of Polish citizens and the Polish press.
Moreover, the fake from Russia lives its own life on the Internet, being reproduced in both the Russian and Ukrainian press (including the â€˜Postupâ€™ weekly from Lvov). No surprise that it is still cited as coming from â€˜Tygodnikâ€™.
â€œâ€™InoSMIâ€™ is a side product of â€˜strana.ruâ€™ portal which specializes in misinterpretationâ€ â€“a Polish expert in Russian affairs (who wishes to remain anonymous) told us. â€œWhat happened to you appears to be symptomatic for the deterioration of Polish-Russian relations, which commenced last summer. Firstly in provincial newspapers, later in well-established and respected media outlets, there have been appearing publications unfriendly towards Polandâ€ â€“ he adds. â€œIt canâ€™t be accidental, because Russian press policy is subordinate to Kremlinâ€™s line. The Internet plays a role in itâ€.
Relations between Poland and Russia were clearly strained during the Orange Revolution. Not only did Polish politicians contribute to the victory of democracy, as did the Polish media also. â€œThis attack on â€˜Tygodnikâ€™, as well as other, similar attempts, can be interpreted as a type of revenge for supporting the Ukrainian revolutionâ€, concludes this Polish expert. â€œThis is a clear indication yet that the Polish media is under observation. â€˜Tygodnikâ€™ is being carefully scrutinized from afar. It has been noticed in Moscow that â€˜TPâ€™ was awarded â€˜The Golden Penâ€™ â€.
Indeed, on May 1st â€˜Tygodnik Powszechnyâ€™ (which has been supporting the development of Polish-Ukrainian relations for years and engaged itself in progressively reporting the Orange Revolution) was awarded â€˜The Golden Penâ€™. The Russian-language media have been eagerly quoting articles published in â€˜TPâ€™. Furthermore, the â€˜InoSMIâ€™ portal has published translations of our publications before.
So what was the purpose of that unquestionably deliberate disinformation and attack on â€˜TPâ€™? It would seem that methods used to perform this â€œoperationâ€ were primitive. In the era of the Internet and electronic mail, such disinformation is easy to uncloak. Reaction against it is swift, for example, in notifying other media sources within Poland, the Ukraine and Russia, as we have done.
Yet, on Friday 18., while closing this issue of â€˜Tygodnikâ€™ and still trying to contradict that information (weâ€™ve been calling and mailing both the Ukrainian and Russian media institutions), our whole network suddenly stopped working. Our technicians examined the problem and discovered that a mass hacking attack had struck down our server. We thankfully avoided much damages, as the internal network in our office has been quickly disconnected from the outside world. It had taken a number of hours before the offensive ceased and our technicians restored electronic communication.
Were all those occurrences from last Thursday and Friday only coincidental? We donâ€™t know it for certain (tracing a source of the attack failed). Only questions and assumptions remain and we are unable to verify them.
According to Polish specialists in Russian affairs, it was a model example of â€œthe network warâ€, so to say â€œan electronic assaultâ€ on our communication system, without which none of newspapers can work. Or perhaps it was only a warning â€“ an actual assault would simply blast our whole network.
It could have been also performed to probe the timing of a response, as experts tell us. Then, the Russian secret service made a test on us, the first such one in Poland. â€œThe network warâ€ has been being successfully employed in the area of former USSR countries, where the Internet plays a crucial role as the only independent source of information, free of official authorityâ€™s control (the web played such role during revolutions in Georgia as well as the Ukraine, and now â€“ in Byelorussia).
The same source claims that at least a dozen of active Russian agents work in Poland, also investigating Polish internet. Not only do they scrutinize polish websites (like those supporting Byelorussian opposition), but also perform such actions, as â€“ for instance â€“ contributing to internet forums on large portals (like Gazeta.pl, Onet.pl, WP.pl). Labelled as Polish Internet users, they incite anti-Semitic or anti-Ukrainian discussions or disavow articles published on the web.
However, what happened last Thursday may result in at least one positive way. Our fellow journalists from the Ukraine are declaring that they will be much more cautious when dealing with information from Russian websites.
One thing is certain, as experts in Kremlin politics claim: such tactics should be expected more and more often. They may aim into other Polish media institutions, as well as organizations and foundations engaging themselves for the Ukraine or Byelorussia.
That would be as much a gift for Russia as the Russian cyber-attacks were for Estonia and Washington to justify the whole dirty police charade as "defense from the evil cyber-communism." Except this would justify the FSB and its programs like SORM to do an attack of an unprecedented scale, to "defend its institutions from cyber-terrorists" or some generic crap reprinted from some memo by the US Department of Homeland Security.
Kass said Chinese officials have published â€œstrategic documentsâ€ outlining â€œunrestricted warfareâ€ against the American information constellation. They â€œunderstand how reliant the United States is on the ability to conduct global command and control,â€ she added.
Moreover, said Arquilla, â€œthe Russians are quite goodâ€ at cyber work. Indeed, it is only too apparent that Moscow takes cyberspace operations very seriously. At least one Russian official has said that a cyber-attack on Russiaâ€™s critical transportation or power infrastructure would warrant a nuclear response.
ow Putin is a power hungry hardliner at the best of times, but he must realise that the U.S.S.R. is history right
Does seem like this happened with at least the knowledge of the russian security services.
I find the Diplomatic Rows more disturbing - I dont see why Russia is picking a fight with Estonia etc? Now Putin is a power hungry hardliner at the best of times, but he must realise that the U.S.S.R. is history right. Add that to his indirect snipes at Bush and Russia is getting to be one pushy bugbear of late.
Hell If I were him and wanted regional influence I'd be pushing for an Asian Economic zone with any body thats not joining the E.U. increase your profits and influence.
Anybody got thoughts on what Putin may be hoping to achieve with all this malarky?
You mean the Polish inhabited territory taken over by Czechs during Bolshevik invasion of Poland that Poles took back before German arrival in 1938 ?
the Polish inhabited territory
Then i can say that Poland was a part of Russian Empire and therefore Poland has to be annexed by Russia.
"Poland occupied areas with Polish minority around ČeskÃ½ TěÅ¡Ãn "
Poland occupied Polish inhabited areas around ČeskÃ½ TěÅ¡Ãn
Poland was never the home of Russians.
"The HFHR estimated around 13,000-15,000 Russians are in Poland."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographi ... d#Russians
Yes, it is clear Poles were the largest group in the area.
Your point ?
"Poland occupied areas with Polish minority around ČeskÃ½ TěÅ¡Ãn "
We have Vietnamese also, but it isn't their homeland. Just like Russians they are migrants.
do you think members of "the largest group" have to dictate conditions and terms to others?
thus 99% of all Americans are "migrants" Laugh out loud
i really like this logic!
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