[dannymu]

Polish press (just an excerpt)

Is it representative of Polish media and Polish public opinion?

[Lokakyy]

to deny it chance to discuss real problems.

...like the communist and homosexual infiltration to the society, mascotted by the infamous agent of subversion, Tinky Winky.

[Torwan]

Typical baseless attacks not rooted in anything real to portay Polish government as insane and to deny it chance to discuss real problems.

Baseless?

What about Lepper and his corruption-thingy? And the fact that the Kaczynskis don't have a majority anymore? And the fact that Poland may need re-elections?

I call that internal problems...

[Shade2]

...like the communist and homosexual infiltration to the society, mascotted by the infamous agent of subversion, Tinky Winky.

Exactly. One minor official was asked if the show can promote homosexual behaviour. She answered that she will ask a psychologist about this. Next day media had blown the story to such proporations that they gloated Poland is censoring televison. Which of course was untrue. And the official had every right to question the nature of the show, considering LGBT people had made claims its queer friendly.
http://transsexual.org/teletub1.html

Tinky Winky fits the classic model of the transgendered, especially the transsexual child. Tinky Winky is very quiet and reserved, but not especially shy. He is very lingustically advanced, and delicate of behavior and manner. "These are all the standard, recognized qualities and behaviors of children who later turn out to be transgendered or transsexual. I cannot imagine that the creators of Teletubbies are entirely ignorant of this. It fits too perfectly.So, though I am certain they would never admit it publicly -indeed I expect it would be denied most vociferously for quite understandable reasons in our current world of intolerance- I for one am very glad and grateful for the inclusion of a genderqueer individual in the show - one of us.

I call that internal problems...

Well at least unlike Germany we don't have external problems, after all we don't have parties claiming our neighbours territory like Germany does, do we ?

[Far-Right Sage]

Well at least unlike Germany we don't have external problems, after all we don't have parties claiming our neighbours territory like Germany does, do we ?

What external territory is Germany claiming? The German government wants nothing to do with Polish lands. You're delusional, and you're allowing your bigotry to get to you. There is no actual argument here - Just a string of unfounded accusations which you continue to hurl at the modern German state for a war that it played a role in over sixty years ago.

[Shade2]

What external territory is Germany claiming? The German government wants nothing to do with Polish lands.

Oh dear FarSa you seem to be too busy making veiled alusions against 'scammers who suck Germany" when talking about Jews and "good sides of Nazism" that you have forgotten how to write.
I wrote parties-are you claiming all parties in Germany are controled by government ? Nice to know.
Anyway they are parties that claim Polish territories in Germany.They are no parties in Poland that claim Lithuanian or Ukrainian territories. Its obvious then that German people are far more nationalistic then Poles who don't desire to claim other countries territories.

You're delusional

http://serwisy.gazeta.pl/swiat/1,34239,3634692.html
"Niemcy nie podpisały dotychczas traktatu pokojowego ze zwycięzcami II wojny światowej. Problem graniczny powinien zostać uregulowany właśnie w tym traktacie. My domagamy się Niemiec w historycznych granicach - powiedział w czwartek w Berlinie Udo Voigt, przewodniczący neofaszystowskiej partii NPD"
Germany never signed peace treaty with victors of II World War. Border problem should be regulated in that treaty. We demand Germany in historic borders-said on thursday in Berlin Udo Voigt-leader of neofascist party NPD.
http://www.welt.de/print-welt/article15 ... estag.html


Perhaps FarSe you are too busy making attacks on 'scammers who suck Germany" when responding to threads about Jews and Nazis "good sides" that you have lost touch with reality.

string of unfounded accusations which you continue to hurl at the modern German state for a war that it played a role in over sixty years ago.

Unfounded ?
Never paid reperations to Poland which was devestated by German policy of extermination and desire to exterminate Poles-check.Never did.
Pays nationalist organisations founded in part by former Nazi activists. Said parties attack Poland and try to portay Germans as victims.check. Germany funds such organisations.
Germany gave amnesty to tens of thousands of Nazis. Check. German did so.
War criminals never punished.Check.War criminals as "butcher of Warsaw" escaped justice.
War criminals elected by Germans as politicians. Check. A person responsible for mass murderer of tens of thousands of Poles was elected several times by German people to be their representive after the war.

So as you see Germany has particualry nasty record and it never did anything to correct it. Of course as German ultra-nationalists you will fail to accept that.

[Far-Right Sage]

Oh dear FarSa you seem to be too busy making veiled alusions against 'scammers who suck Germany" when talking about Jews

You seem to enjoying lying, do you not? I specifically stated that these people are in the minority, and that they in no way represent Israel or the Jewish people. And yet you take that as a negative remark directed toward Jews? Unbelievable.

and "good sides of Nazism" that you have forgotten how to write

And I stand by my comment. Every ideology has positive and negative aspects, expect perhaps Communism.

I wrote parties-are you claiming all parties in Germany are controled by government ? Nice to know.
Anyway they are parties that claim Polish territories in Germany.They are no parties in Poland that claim Lithuanian or Ukrainian territories. Its obvious then that German people are far more nationalistic then Poles who don't desire to claim other countries territories.

I believe that I addressed this in another thread. I see nothing wrong with striving toward Großdeutschland. The parties which espouse this view are in the minority anyway.

"Niemcy nie podpisały dotychczas traktatu pokojowego ze zwycięzcami II wojny światowej. Problem graniczny powinien zostać uregulowany właśnie w tym traktacie. My domagamy się Niemiec w historycznych granicach - powiedział w czwartek w Berlinie Udo Voigt, przewodniczący neofaszystowskiej partii NPD"
Germany never signed peace treaty with victors of II World War. Border problem should be regulated in that treaty. We demand Germany in historic borders-said on thursday in Berlin Udo Voigt-leader of neofascist party NPD.

Now you're distorting the facts. Germany signed compensation treaties with the Soviet Union after World War II, which covered Poland. If the Soviets failed to allocate the funds, that is the fault of the Russians; not Germany. And I also believe that Germany under Kohl did renounce all territorial claims.

Never paid reperations to Poland which was devestated by German policy of extermination and desire to exterminate Poles-check.Never did.

Poland was politically dominated by the USSR during the post-war era. Germany was forced to pay reparations to the Soviet Union.

Pays nationalist organisations founded in part by former Nazi activists. Said parties attack Poland and try to portay Germans as victims.check. Germany funds such organisations.

Source?

Germany gave amnesty to tens of thousands of Nazis. Check. German did so.

What exactly do you mean by "Nazis"? All top "war criminals" were arrested and tried by American, British, Soviet, and French tribunals. Germany, for the most part, didn't micromanage the judicial process.

War criminals never punished.Check.War criminals as "butcher of Warsaw" escaped justice.
War criminals elected by Germans as politicians. Check. A person responsible for mass murderer of tens of thousands of Poles was elected several times by German people to be their representive after the war.

And several Wehrmacht officers were also appointed to high-ranking intelligence positions by the West German government. It's called Cold War politics, Shade.

So as you see Germany has particualry nasty record and it never did anything to correct it

Nearly every nation worth its own weight has a "nasty record". I believe that you often defend the U.S. The United States doesn't have a nasty record? It was built through the use of slavery and ethnic cleansing, for Christ's sake. Let's not be hypocrites here.

Of course as German ultra-nationalists you will fail to accept that.

It's a bit hard to be an "ultra-nationalist" of a nation in which one does not even reside. I am a U.S. nationalist though.

[Shade2]

You seem to enjoying lying, do you not?

No I am not member of your club.

FarSe I specifically stated that these people are in the minority, and that they in no way represent Israel or the Jewish people. And yet you take that as a negative remark directed toward Jews? Unbelievable.

Yes, yes how stupid of me. Of course in no way would you make that remark to avoid being accused of antisemitism and yet being able to throw mud at Jewish people.

And I stand by my comment.

Well FarSe you just said a movement that sought to exterminate whole nations that it classified as animals has good sides. You reached the bottom of a sewer of human waste when it comes to ideology and beliefs.

I believe that I addressed this in another thread.

No FarSe you adressed this in this thread, appearently too excited at opportunity to make claims about some Jews "bleeding Germany" to even bother reading what I wrote. Didn't you FarSe ?

I see nothing wrong with striving toward Großdeutschland.

You support for core element of neonazi ideology and for creation of an racist state has been noted.

Now you're distorting the facts.

Huh ? I only translated what Udo Voight said, argue with him

, not with me.

If the Soviets failed to allocate the funds, that is the fault of the Russians; not Germany

I'm sorry but treaties between Soviet Union and Germany regard only Soviet Union and Germany. If Germany wants to regulate something with Poland it has to make a treaty with Poland.

Germany was forced to pay reparations to the Soviet Union.

And what do I care ? It didn't paid any to Poland. Not Polish problem if Germans saw Poland as part of Soviet Union. It has no legal meaning anyway as Poland was considered a seperate country.

Source?

http://www.bundestag.de/aktuell/hib/200 ... 89/05.html

Die Abgeordneten hatten in ihrer Anfrage auf Pressemeldungen verwiesen, wonach ehemalige NSDAP-Mitglieder nach dem Krieg Funktionen im Bund der Vertriebenen (BdV) wahrgenommen hätten. Der Bund der Vertriebenen erhalte aus dem Bundeshaushalt jährlich 920.000 Euro als institutionelle Förderung, teilt die Regierung weiter mit. Zur "Förderung des friedlichen Miteinanders mit den Völkern Ostmittel-, Ost- und Südosteuropas" erhalte er darüber hinaus etwa 70.000 bis 90.000 Euro an Projektmitteln pro Jahr, die teilweise an seine Mitgliedsverbände weitergeleitet würden und die ausschließlich zweckgebunden verwendet werden dürften. Vom Bundesamt für Migration und Flüchtlinge erhalte der BdV ferner 250.000 Euro für die Integrationsmaßnahmen für Spätaussiedler und seit diesem Jahr 800.000 Euro jährlich für die Erstberatung von Migranten. Der BdV habe zudem aus dem Haushalt des Beauftragten der Bundesregierung für Kultur und Medien zuletzt im Jahr 1999 43.000 DM zur Förderung kultureller Projekte erhalten. Überdies habe der BdV mitgeteilt, dass die Beitragszahlungen seiner Mitglieder seit 2001 um mehr als die Hälfte gesunken seien, heißt es in der Antwort.

What exactly do you mean by "Nazis"?

Adenauer's Germany and the Nazi Past chronicles how amnesty laws for Nazi officials were passed unanimously and civil servants who had been dismissed in 1945 were reinstated liberally�and how a massive popular outcry led to the release of war criminals who had been condemned by the Allies. These measures and movements represented more than just the rehabilitation of particular individuals. Frei argues that the amnesty process delegitimized the previous political expurgation administered by the Allies and, on a deeper level, served to satisfy the collective psychic needs of a society longing for a clean break with the unparalleled political and moral catastrophe it had undergone in the 1940s. Thus the era of Adenauer devolved into a scandal-ridden period of reintegration at any cost. Frei's work brilliantly and chillingly explores how the collective will of the German people, expressed through mass allegiance to new consensus-oriented democratic parties, cast off responsibility for the horrors of the war and Holocaust, effectively silencing engagement with the enormities of the Nazi past.

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/cup/catalog/ ... 118821.HTM

Germany, for the most part, didn't micromanage the judicial process.

Nor did it allow extradition of numerous war criminals responsible for mass murders of Polish people like Heinz Reinefarth. In fact Germans elected him for political positions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_Reinefarth

From August 5, 1944 Reinefarth's group took part in fighting in the Wola area. In several days, his and Oskar Dirlewanger's soldiers executed approximately 40,000 civilian inhabitants of Warsaw in what is now known as the Wola Massacre. In one of his reports to the commander of the German 9th Army he stated that "we have more prisoners than ammunition to kill them". After securing the Wola area, his troops took part in heavy fighting against the Armia Krajowa in the Old Town. In September, his forces were transferred to attack the partisans in the boroughs of Powiśle and Czerniaków. During the fighting in Warsaw, they deliberately shot most of the POWs, civilians and wounded in captured hospitals. For his actions during the Warsaw Uprising Reinefarth was awarded on September 30, 1944, with the Oak Leaves to his Iron Cross.

In December 1951 he was elected Mayor of the town of Westerland, the main town on the island of Sylt. In 1962 he was elected to the Landtag of Schleswig-Holstein. After his term ended in 1967 he started to work as a lawyer.

Despite numerous demands, he was never extradited to Poland. Instead, the government of West Germany awarded him with a General's pension. He died on May 7, 1979 in his manor on Sylt.

And several Wehrmacht officers were also appointed to high-ranking intelligence positions by the West German government. It's called Cold War politics, Shade.

LOL, oh that explains it all. After all extermination of Jews was politics also to Germany. Get a life. Calling it a politics doesn't solve the problem. If those scum are alive they should be put on trial. If not Germany should apologise and remove any monuments, dedications and honorary graves as well as pay compensation for crimes they did. Does Germany do so ? Of course not.

Nearly every nation worth its own weight has a "nasty record".

LOL. Its like defending Hannibal Lecter by saying, sure he eated people, but aren't we all sometimes doing something against the law.

It's a bit hard to be an "ultra-nationalist" of a nation in which one does not even reside.

Which law of physics forbids that ?

I am a U.S. nationalist though.

Last time I saw US was a democratic state. Not German Nazi dictatorship.

[Far-Right Sage]

No I am not member of your club.

Are you in elementary school? Let's try to place ourselves above such riff-raff.

Yes, yes how stupid of me. Of course in no way would you make that remark to avoid being accused of antisemitism and yet being able to throw mud at Jewish people.

What "mud" did I throw at Jewish people? I stated very specifically that the scammers in question were a minority of people, and that they in no way represented Jews. There are also many non-Jews who pull the kind of shit that I was discussing.

Well FarSe you just said a movement that sought to exterminate whole nations that it classified as animals has good sides. You reached the bottom of a sewer of human waste when it comes to ideology and beliefs.

The Nazi Party also helped to alleviate German poverty. That doesn't mean that it was an overall positive force, because it wasn't, but it does mean that it did, like most any other party or ideology, have good sides.

No FarSe you adressed this in this thread, appearently too excited at opportunity to make claims about some Jews "bleeding Germany" to even bother reading what I wrote. Didn't you FarSe ?

I was NOT referring to the Jewish people, but a few scam artists. You wouldn't be concerned with a couple of hotshots trying to bleed Poland dry?

You support for core element of neonazi ideology and for creation of an racist state has been noted

It has nothing to do with Neo-Nazism, Nazism, or anything else you're pulling out of your ass. The concept was around long before Adolf Hitler was even born.

Huh ? I only translated what Udo Voight said, argue with him

, not with me.

Udo Voight has many interesting things to say and some great positions, but trying to portray him as a mainstream German politician is absolutely ludicrous.

And what do I care ? It didn't paid any to Poland. Not Polish problem if Germans saw Poland as part of Soviet Union. It has no legal meaning anyway as Poland was considered a seperate country.

And I'm sorry to bring you into the harsh light of reality, but Poland, as a country, was irrelevant in the post-war era. It was a state politically dominated by the Soviet Union. It was not thought much of, and personally, I believe that that was for good reason.

Die Abgeordneten hatten in ihrer Anfrage auf Pressemeldungen verwiesen, wonach ehemalige NSDAP-Mitglieder nach dem Krieg Funktionen im Bund der Vertriebenen (BdV) wahrgenommen hätten. Der Bund der Vertriebenen erhalte aus dem Bundeshaushalt jährlich 920.000 Euro als institutionelle Förderung, teilt die Regierung weiter mit. Zur "Förderung des friedlichen Miteinanders mit den Völkern Ostmittel-, Ost- und Südosteuropas" erhalte er darüber hinaus etwa 70.000 bis 90.000 Euro an Projektmitteln pro Jahr, die teilweise an seine Mitgliedsverbände weitergeleitet würden und die ausschließlich zweckgebunden verwendet werden dürften. Vom Bundesamt für Migration und Flüchtlinge erhalte der BdV ferner 250.000 Euro für die Integrationsmaßnahmen für Spätaussiedler und seit diesem Jahr 800.000 Euro jährlich für die Erstberatung von Migranten. Der BdV habe zudem aus dem Haushalt des Beauftragten der Bundesregierung für Kultur und Medien zuletzt im Jahr 1999 43.000 DM zur Förderung kultureller Projekte erhalten. Überdies habe der BdV mitgeteilt, dass die Beitragszahlungen seiner Mitglieder seit 2001 um mehr als die Hälfte gesunken seien, heißt es in der Antwort.

This is what you're going on about? The nature of the organization is touched upon in the article, but with little to no background information given. Yes, former members of the Waffen-SS initially served in the BdV; that isn't the issue. The issue is that this is an organization formed with the intent to help displaced Germans who suffered bigotry and near-pogroms by various Slavic communities throughout Eastern Europe. To believe your assertion that the organization is illegitimate, one would have to believe that these SS members were not patriots, and thus, were not working to represent the true interests of German victims. You cannot prove this.

Nor did it allow extradition of numerous war criminals responsible for mass murders of Polish people like Heinz Reinefarth. In fact Germans elected him for political positions.

Reinefarth was a soldier and a German war hero. I find it a bit silly that we're debating whether or not he should have been allowed to enter politics. Yes, the man ordered the execution of Polish POWs. Such an order is commonplace during wartime.

LOL, oh that explains it all. After all extermination of Jews was politics also to Germany. Get a life. Calling it a politics doesn't solve the problem. If those scum are alive they should be put on trial. If not Germany should apologise and remove any monuments, dedications and honorary graves as well as pay compensation for crimes they did. Does Germany do so ? Of course not.

Don't preach to me. Frankly, I'm not interested in your moral indignation. Germany could not afford to gut herself from the inside out with the Soviet's pupppet-state right on the border. This was the Cold War; it has nothing to do with what should have happened in order to put your precious feelings at ease.

LOL. Its like defending Hannibal Lecter by saying, sure he eated people, but aren't we all sometimes doing something against the law.

I was merely describing a true global reality. Yes, historically, Germany has a militaristic culture. I, for one, believe that more Germans should take pride in it. Bismarck is not Hitler, and Prussian military tradition is not inherently evil, but something to be proud of.

Which law of physics forbids that ?

You often endorse the United States, but it would be rather silly to refer to you as an American nationalist.

Last time I saw US was a democratic state. Not German Nazi dictatorship.

I apologize. I wasn't aware that I called for a "German Nazi dictatorship".

[ludikundera]

I like the cover. I think it's decent satire, and gets its point across rather well.

I also think it's rather fitting that the Germans finally get a chance to be angry at a portrayal of their leader in the press. For, if you'll recall, some Poles got rowdy after some German publication compared one of the Kaczynskis to a potato a while or two ago.

(http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/article/0,,1813736,00.html)

Taken together, I think these incidents prove that politicians are so self-serious that they can't take jokes. Maybe Germans and Poles aren't so different after all!