Luxury in Europe - and our high taxes - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#1277388
In every single american household, there is installed Air Conditioning. No, I am not talking about those portable air cons like these:

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which are VERY noisy (I have one myself, 53 dB).

I am talking about REAL air conditioning in every room where the noisy part is installed outside of the house.

And it is considered a luxury in Europe to have such air conditioning, whereas in America, poor households have these.

The fact that fewer europeans have air conditioning than americans says something about our economy: We are poor!

What is the reason? Simple: We tax electricity too high. And we have too high sales taxes.

Perhaps EU should abolish sales tax for Air conditioning and lower the taxes for electricity, so we can enjoy the same standard of living as the americans!
By Torwan
#1277404
Oh yes. Air conditioning for everyone.

Let's forget about the huge extra amount of electricity we'll need for that and let's forget about the whole environmental protection treaties we've signed.

It's very important to have totally controlled 19-degrees-air...


...

Did I mention that I HATE air conditioning?! Open the goddamn windows, for crying out loud!!
By dktekno
#1277449
Did I mention that I HATE air conditioning?! Open the goddamn windows, for crying out loud!!


What if it is not enough?
I mean, when it is 30 degrees celcius, you just need to get cooled off.
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By Spike Spiegel
#1277457
I am talking about REAL air conditioning in every room where the noisy part is installed outside of the house.

And it is considered a luxury in Europe to have such air conditioning, whereas in America, poor households have these.


What are you talking about. You should check prices of air conditioning? I have a good air conditioning device whose noisy part is outside of the house and it was not all that expensive.
To tell you the truth I don't even know how does air conditioning device with a noisy part inside look like. And I live in Croatia so my income isn't even comparable to yours.

And I agree with Torwan air conditioning is evil. You should plant a tree in front of your house and live in shade or build energy efficient house.
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By Zel
#1277484
Come down South and complain again, last week I would have killed for mere 30 degrees, but I would not ever have considered an air conditioning. Cool down your room to heat up the atmosphere so you have to put more money into cooling down your room next year around. Very insightful use of energy and resources.
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By Spike Spiegel
#1277521
After little research I concluded that your problem lies in a fact that you live in Denmark. Land of windmills, clean, non polluting and expensive electricity. Apparently Denmark has highest prices of electricity in Europe so that might be a part of your problem.
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By Ombrageux
#1277537
Americans believe in waste to a greater extent than other first world nations. It's nothing to be proud of.
By Shade2
#1277542
Huh ? There is no country "Europe". Its a continent that has various countries. USA is a country, its silly to compare it to continent.
As to air conditioning-way to go ! Its cool to see man conquer nature instead of being its slave. If energy is a problem we can get more from coal, nuclear and other sources. Those who are against progress can go eat grass and berries in forest.
User avatar
By QatzelOk
#1277549
the noisy part is installed outside of the house.

Where it contaminates your neighbor's yards with noise pollution and dripping, stagnant water.

Better to keep these things inside where their owners are the only ones who are forced to live with the noise.

Forcing noise onto your others is not freedom-inducing. Neither is forcing climate change on the rest of the world to keep your armpits dry.
By Shade2
#1277550
Neither is forcing climate change on the rest of the world to keep your armpits dry.

The world tries to force my armpits to be wet. I only strike back.
By steve1
#1299621
Opening the windows is a good shout.
Especially considering the lousy weather in the uk this year.
Im off to buy an electric heater!
By Decky
#1299656
Why would anyone need it? If you somewhere where humans shouldn't live move somwhere more sensible.
By Rick
#1299804
Americans believe in waste to a greater extent than other first world nations. It's nothing to be proud of.


Yaaaa - in France they don't waste. Remember in 2003 when everyone went on their august vacation and left their grandparents to cope with the heat, and 10,000 died? That's the french idea of not wasting electricity.
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By Aught Six
#1300065
It would be great to see Europeans have the freedom of choice that we do, as well as the lower cost of living, and lower taxes, but it looks as though many of your compatriots here don't value that personal freedom.

The cradle-to-grave welfare systems seems nice from a distance, but while it aids those who can't seem to take care of themselves, it doesn't do much for the individuals who want to do better than average. And obviously, it won't last forever at the rate the EU is going.

I encourage all Europeans to visit the US, and if you like what you see and have your papers in order, to stay. It certainly doesn't seem so evil a country when you experience it for yourself.

For the skeptics, modern A/C units, especially central air units, are extremely efficient (20-40% compared to a decade ago) and pollute a lot less than many people realize.

Also, the plural of 'Lexus' is 'Lexuses'. For those who don't know it, they're Japanese cars, and most Americans do not own one.
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By Joschka
#1300103
what you seem to forget is, that most europeans dont need air condition... because we have a very mild summer... at least in germany... and the rest of northern europe.

by the way, a welfare system obviate that some people need 3 or 4 jobs to live and i think thats a very good point, as same as that our health insurance prevent our families from bankrupt, because of a heavy disease
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By Ombrageux
#1300141
The cradle-to-grave welfare systems seems nice from a distance, but while it aids those who can't seem to take care of themselves, it doesn't do much for the individuals who want to do better than average. And obviously, it won't last forever at the rate the EU is going.

It's pretty nice for me, and most Europeans are in no hurry to dismantle their welfare states. Americans do not understand that poverty is not a choice, choice alone in not freedom, and freedom from want is one of the most fun-da-men-tal. The welfare state exists on grounds principle and practical. Principle because poverty is unholy. Practical because a healthy society is in the benefit of all citizens. It means we simultaneously spend less on healthcare than Americans and are in better health. That everyone, including our youth, is guaranteed a certain minimum standard of living, means we don't have to resort to putting such a large percentage of our young men through prison.

The welfare state is here to stay, it may have to be lessened somewhat in certain areas, notably old-aged pensions, due to the increasing number of our old people, but it will not go away.
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By Joschka
#1300149
IMO one big effort by the welfare state, especially by the healthcare system, is that you dont see anybodys social status/standing on state of ones teeth.
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By Aught Six
#1300158
To each his own. I don't want to see America become Europe--but if Europeans likes their systems, more power to them. I just hope it works in the long run. The low birth rates and retiring Baby Boomer generation is going to hit every western country's system hard.

Regarding my criticism, keep in mind that half of my in-laws are German. Few of them have anything nice to say about Berlin's policies. Maybe it's something about those proud, stubborn Bavarians. They speak of paying over half their wages in taxes and not having much control over the management of their own lives. Some people want more than a small apartment and free health care that they have to wait in line for.

As for the U.S., I've never heard of anyone working three or four jobs to make ends meet. I'm sure it happens, but not enough to make a generalization about the American economy.

The problem with some Americans isn't that they don't make enough, but that they want more than they can possibly afford. If someone wants to be a cashier for the rest of his/her life, yet has two or three children out of wedlock, goes bar-hopping every other night, and still buys a 60" plasma TV and a new car, yes, it will take three to four cashier jobs to pull it all off.

Bankruptcies are up because the average American spends 110% of his/her income. Absolutely ridiculous. If these people want to act like idiots and abandon all personal responsibility, what should they expect other than failure? Welfare doesn't cure ignorance and stupidity, and unfortunately a lot of people find role models in Hollywood, not in the real world.

The U.S. economy is more resilient than anything we've seen in Europe. That's one of the reasons we can afford to keep military forces on the continent so Europe doesn't have to build up its forces. People who want to succeed do. Many, particularly in the younger MTV generation (and Hillary, for that matter), dream of a social welfare state without understanding the realities of such a system, particularly in a country as large as America. Unlike the previous generations, these people want everything while giving nothing.

Anyway, I'm sure we could go on and on about this. I have juvenile diabetes (the genetic kind, not the over-eating kind) and my wife and I get by on only her income, which really is only slightly above average for her age. I started working as soon as I got out of high school and went to college part-time at night, saving up a little money along the way. Now I've decided to go back to school full time to get it over with. There are millions more who have done or are doing the same thing (my grandfather and father, for instance).

My point is that where there's a will, there's a way. Don't let those people who can't plan for their futures make you think that all Americans are so irresponsible.

Obviously there are some differences in the American spirit and the European spirit. We do have a choice in almost every aspect of life, but a few bad apples simply don't want to put forth the effort to be the best they could be. Most Americans, however, cherish this freedom, and work hard for it.
User avatar
By Joschka
#1300190
of course, not every american do need 3 or 4 jobs, i never supposed that, but i often read and heard about, that the us have a huge lower class which is hardly able to manage their life without doing as much jobs as they get.
in europe we think, that the state got the job to get sure, that everybody will get a minimum healthcare, etc... the issue/problem is to find the right apropriate extent, how much welfare you want. in germany with long time economic boom, we achieved a very high level and currently we have to correct it, globalization is requiring. but its a very hard way for the current politicians.

there is one point, which i absolutely have to disagree:
We do have a choice in almost every aspect of life

no, you havent. for instance, you cant choose your parents, and according to this, you cant choose the social circumstances among you grow up... (speaking about equal opportunities)
one special example: in us you have to be a multimillionare to run for president. otherwise you have no chance, or has there ever been one single us-president, who wasnt as much as rich? however, i dont know anyone, have to appologize if there has been one.

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