Heavy turnout predicted as Iranians vote - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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User avatar
By Nets
#13062147
An anti-imperialist victor make me proud!


The alliance between Marxists and Islamist theocrats is worth it just for the lulz.

You clearly advocate war, here, Nets. In fact, war apparently is your preference.


I did no such thing. Please point out where I advocated war in relation to these elections. I would say this was a straw man, but you aren't making an argument.
By Zyx
#13062150
Nets wrote:It's good that Iran's figurehead will continue to be a clown who the US and Europe can't stand.


What else can this mean?

As for as Islamic theocrats, he's an anti-imperialist.

Also, Islam is historically anti-imperialist. No reason to denounce the religion.
User avatar
By Nets
#13062166
Also, Islam is historically anti-imperialist. No reason to denounce the religion.


Yea, everyone is anti-imperialist when they are on the receiving end, so what.
Image

As for as Islamic theocrats, he's an anti-imperialist.


Yea, and? Anyways, I didn't say Islamic, I said Islamist.

What else can this mean?


Sanctions, political isolation, national embarrassment, etc. I do not favor war, I do support continued political pressure.
User avatar
By Igor Antunov
#13062176
The alliance between Marxists and Islamist theocrats is worth it just for the lulz.


Actually islam is very compatible with socialism on the economic front. Iran is predominantly a socialist economy.
By Zyx
#13062183
Nets wrote:Sanctions, political isolation, national embarrassment, etc. I do not favor war, I do support continued political pressure.


The other side of diplomacy is war. If the U.S. can't stand Iran, as in it's not diplomatic with it . . ..

Fine, though, if you support more diplomacy despite wishing that Iran is non-negotiable, whatever.

Nets wrote:Yea, everyone is anti-imperialist when they are on the receiving end, so what.


That's a meaningless map. Unless you want to show how that relates with anything, you've wasted twenty seconds.

Nets wrote:Yea, and? Anyways, I didn't say Islamic, I said Islamist.


Alright, so someone who wants to enforce Sharia law? I don't usually use that word, but ok.

I don't see how that's automatically a bad thing. A nation wants to enforce law.
User avatar
By arabian_dream
#13062192
I hope AhmadiNajad wins...
User avatar
By Nets
#13062197
The other side of diplomacy is war. If the U.S. can't stand Iran, as in it's not diplomatic with it . . ..

Fine, though, if you support more diplomacy despite wishing that Iran is non-negotiable, whatever.


This last sentence wasn't really English. "Wishing that Iran is non-negotiable". What?

That's a meaningless map. Unless you want to show how that relates with anything, you've wasted twenty seconds.


You said Islam is historically anti-imperialist, which is a meaningless comment. First, I'd argue that it isn't (Islam was initially spread by a violent empire). Second, it has nothing to do with this discussion (you claimed I denounced Islam, I didn't in this thread).

Alright, so someone who wants to enforce Sharia law? I don't usually use that word, but ok.
I don't see how that's automatically a bad thing. A nation wants to enforce law.


It just makes me laugh that the same people who cheerlead for the Ayatollahs scream bloody murder about Christmas trees on town hall lawns.

You support them solely because they oppose your own country, the US, and conveniently ignore that all of their social policies go against your ideology.
User avatar
By arabian_dream
#13062207
]
Nets wrote:
You said Islam is historically anti-imperialist, which is a meaningless comment. First, I'd argue that it isn't (Islam was initially spread by a violent empire).


You got that from pope didnt u?
why dont u go and study history from a non-anti-Islam(not racist) point of view.
User avatar
By Nets
#13062211
You got that from pope didnt u?


You caught me, I'm a papist! :eek:

why dont u go and study history from a non-anti-Islam(not racist) point of view.


Islam is not a race. Anyways, not to derail the thread, but are you claiming that Mohamed and his successors didn't conquer and convert massive amounts of land? Your a young religion so I'll forgive your hot-headedness.
User avatar
By MVictorP
#13062261
Nets wrote:Anyways, not to derail the thread, but are you claiming that Mohamed and his successors didn't conquer and convert massive amounts of land? Your a young religion so I'll forgive your hot-headedness.


What Nets is saying here, is that the Muslim expension of a millenia ago forcibly excuse the imperialistic practices of both the US and Isreal now, of course. Next thing he is going to excuse all vice from his own party (ies) because Mohammad had an underage wife, more than a thousand years ago, I guess.

Is that it Nets?

:roll:

Nets, the Muslim cannot support an empire. Even their own. If that's what they wanted, they would have at last have a Muslim central authority, or actual Caliphate (not to mention an actual army), don't you think? You are not scaring anyone with your old tired and battered scarecrows.
User avatar
By Nets
#13062263
What Nets is saying here, is that the Muslim expension of a millenia ago forcibly excuse the imperialistic practices of both the US and Isreal now, of course. Next thing he is going to excuse all vice from his own party (ies) because Mohammad had an underage wife, more than a thousand years ago, I guess.

Is that it Nets?


If you could be bothered to read the thread you'd see that this was not what I was saying. Zyx claimed (without a relevant reason) that Islam has a history of being anti-imperialist. I pointed out that this history is mixed, and depends on the time and place. You'll notice that I was not the one who broached the subject in this thread, Zyx was.

Would you or Zyx care to put any other words in my mouth? :lol:
User avatar
By MVictorP
#13062268
Nets wrote:If you could be bothered to read the thread you'd see that this was not what I was saying. Zyx claimed (for relevant reason) that Islam has a history of being anti-imperialist. I pointed out that this history is mixed, and depends on the time and place.

Would you or Zyx care to put any other words in my mouth?


This is simplistic rethorics, Nets. The main aspect of Zyx's point is "Also, Islam is anti-imperialist." But as he wrote it "Also, Islam is historically anti-imperialist" (he could have meant recent history too), you saw there an occasion to derail the debate by bringing up stuff that is totally irrelevant to the discussion.
User avatar
By Nets
#13062273
Not content with putting words in my mouth, now you are telling us how "Zyx wrote this, but meant this". I'm sorry if I don't respond to what your interpretation of what Zyx meant in the text, I respond to the text as written; that is, honestly.

My responses were directly related to what Zyx had written, there was no tangent on my part.

Try again.
User avatar
By MVictorP
#13062285
Nets wrote:Not content with putting words in my mouth, now you are telling us how "Zyx wrote this, but meant this". I'm sorry if I don't respond to what your interpretation of what Zyx meant in the text, I respond to the text as written; that is, honestly.


Why would Zyx made a comment about the Muslim empire from a millenia ago? What does that would bring to his point (which was about viewing Ahmad as a clown)? You can't see the forest for the trees. You acted like an advocate, looking for procedure vice rather than following the discussion's flow.

My responses were directly related to what Zyx had written, there was no tangent on my part.


Damn how you gleefully taken that tangent as soon as you saw an opening. Zyx didn't have to offer it to you twice.
#13062289
Ahmadinejad enjoys second surprise triumph
Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:14am EDT
By Parisa Hafezi

Image

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad shook off accusations from moderate opponents of economic mis-management and criticism of his confrontational foreign policy with the West to win a second term as Iranian president.

While his re-election was not a major upset, the scale of his first-round victory stunned his main challenger, Mirhossein Mousavi, whose campaign had drawn tens of thousands onto the streets of Tehran during three weeks of campaigning. Ahmadinejad won twice as many votes as Mousavi.

It was not the first time Ahmadinejad, a blacksmith's son and former Revolutionary Guard, defied predictions. Four years ago the relative unknown stole the show by defeating powerful former president Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani in a run-off vote.

In his first term in office Ahmadinejad became known to the outside world for his fierce rhetoric against the United States and Israel, his proud promotion of Iran's nuclear programme, and persistent questioning of the Holocaust.

But Friday's election was also seen as a referendum on his handling of an oil exporting economy which enjoyed a surge in petrodollar revenues on his watch -- a boom which critics say he squandered.

Ahmadinejad, 53, championed Iran's devout poor, especially those in rural areas, who felt neglected by past governments and helped sweep him to power in 2005.

He promised to put oil wealth on the table of every family in a nation of over 70 million people, distributing loans, money and other help for local projects on his frequent provincial tours.

But critics say his free-spending policies fueled inflation and wasted windfall oil revenues without reducing unemployment.

Since he took power, prices of food, fuel and other basics have risen sharply, hitting more than 15 million Iranian families who live on less than $600 a month, according to official figures.

He blamed the inflation, which officially stands at 15 percent, on a global surge in food and fuel prices that peaked last year, and pursued unorthodox policies such as trying to curb prices while setting interest rates well below inflation.

In a series of bitter television debates with his three election rivals, he was repeatedly accused of lying about the extent of price rises.

Mousavi also accused Ahmadinejad of undermining Iran's foreign relations with his fiery anti-Western speeches and said Iranians had been "humiliated around the globe" since he was first elected.

MODEST LIFESTYLE

Born in the farming village of Aradan, 100 km (60 miles) southeast of Tehran, his family moved to the capital in his early childhood. He studied engineering and has alternated between teaching and administrative posts.

Ahmadinejad, a small man who wears open-necked shirts and windbreakers, plays on his modest origins and lifestyle. After the 1979 revolution, he joined the elite Revolutionary Guard.

His rise to power appeared to signal a return to the stern revolutionary roots of the Islamic Republic's founder, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, after hardliners snuffed out the reformist challenge when Mohammad Khatami was president from 1997 to 2005.

Ahmadinejad often denounces Western "hegemony" as well as the U.N. and U.S. sanctions that have raised trade costs and deterred Western investment in Iran's oil and gas sector.

During his term, the U.N. Security Council has imposed three sets of sanctions on Iran over its nuclear programme, which the West suspects has military aims, not merely civilian ones as Tehran insists.

Ahmadinejad's moderate rivals say his fiery anti-Western talk has helped isolate Iran diplomatically.

The incumbent has basked in support from Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who called on Iranians to vote for an anti-Western candidate. Khamenei ultimately calls the shots in Iran, where the president can only influence policy, not decide it.
Source

So much for the Cairo effect. :O
By babilonian
#13062379
(Islam was initially spread by a violent empire)


Nets, why are you telling us how Islam was spread. Why not tell us how "the promised land was conquered"? Its your history. Was it a "peaceful" conquer of Judea? Or was there allot of blood?
User avatar
By Igor Antunov
#13062382
Supporters of Ahmadinejad, Mousavi clash in Tehran

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Hundreds of supporters of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and moderate challenger Mirhossein Mousavi clashed in Tehran on Saturday after a landslide victory for Ahmadinejad in a presidential election, a Reuters witness said.

Police using batons moved to disperse the demonstrators who were staging a sit-in to protest against Ahmadinejad's victory. They were chasing and arresting some of the protestors.

The witness saw two men being carried away from the scene at Vanak square in the Iranian capital. Some people were having fistfights.

The violence broke out as Iran's Interior Minister announced that Ahmadinejad had won Friday's election, gaining 62.6 percent of the vote in an election which Mousavi has criticized for violations.

Up to 2,000 Mousavi supporters then staged a sit-in in the middle of the road, clapping hands and chanting: "Mousavi take back our vote! What happened to our vote?." They also chanted at security forces: "Police, brother, you're one of us."

Dozens of riot police were standing nearby.

(Reporting by Parisa Hafezi; Writing by Dominic Evans and Fredrik Dahl; Editing by Samia Nakhoul)

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsMaps ... 1920090613

Bring in the tear gas and rubber bullets.
By babilonian
#13062392
CNN's Cristian Amanpour is also reporting the same thing.

Nets:
It's a shame, I was rooting for the Hezbollah coalition in this

Why Hizbullah in Lebanon, but not Ahmadinajat in Iran?
User avatar
By Oxymoron
#13062454
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) - Iran declared President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad the winner Saturday of an election that pitted the conservative establishment against candidate with broad backing from the country's youth. Riot police attacked opposition supporters, beating them with clubs and smashing cars.

A statement from Mousavi posted on his Web site condemned what he described as the "manipulation" of election results.

Demonstrators wearing the trademark green color of Mir Hossein Mousavi chanted slogans condemning the results that gave 62.6 percent of the vote to Ahmadinejad. Protesters set fire to tires outside the Interior Ministry in the most serious unrest in Tehran in a decade.


http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090613/D98PPP880.html

Perhaps this is the best result we could have hoped for.
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