- 02 Sep 2010 20:34
#13491214
#1. fuser, what you say (as you admit) is completely inplausible in 1944. Early 1943, just previous to Kursk, it is slightly more plausible.
#2. With all do respect, I think the people who think the Allies would prevail are ignoring some tremendous political considerations.
From a materialist point of view, you are all correct that the Allies are completely out-producing the Axis come 1944. However, the reality is that Allies at no point in the war showed that they were able to beat Germans on equal terms. From the deserts in Africa, to the Hills of Italy, to hedges of Normandy, the Allies only prevailed with overwhelming air superiority, superior numbers, and superior weaponry.
The reality is Normandy (on the scale it was planned) is just not going to be successful if you add the 150 or so German divisions that were fighting on Eastern Front to this theatre, ESPECIALLY considering the eastern front troops by and large were higher quality and better trained than most units in the east (especially during D-Day).
So, with the atomic bomb, with years of out producing the Germans, the political situation being equal, is it plausible the allies prevail? Plausible yes, but the political situation would not be equal. What if the Normandy invasion was wiped out? Even WITH the Russians knifing their way to Warsaw at that time there would have been HUGE political consequences.
So it is a crap-shoot as far as I'm concerned. If the Allies can hang in there, maybe they win. I doubt, despite my love for the British Empire and Churchill and Spitfires, etc. etc., that they would in the face of any serious setbacks (i.e. being pushed out of Italy, again VERY plausible with a dozen or so eastern front divisions with some level of mechanization).
- WHD
P.S. Also consider that the Germans had a very impressive military research complex, they might not (probably not) have had the atomic bomb, but think of what just four full squardons of Me 262s could do to air superiority in the West.
#2. With all do respect, I think the people who think the Allies would prevail are ignoring some tremendous political considerations.
From a materialist point of view, you are all correct that the Allies are completely out-producing the Axis come 1944. However, the reality is that Allies at no point in the war showed that they were able to beat Germans on equal terms. From the deserts in Africa, to the Hills of Italy, to hedges of Normandy, the Allies only prevailed with overwhelming air superiority, superior numbers, and superior weaponry.
The reality is Normandy (on the scale it was planned) is just not going to be successful if you add the 150 or so German divisions that were fighting on Eastern Front to this theatre, ESPECIALLY considering the eastern front troops by and large were higher quality and better trained than most units in the east (especially during D-Day).
So, with the atomic bomb, with years of out producing the Germans, the political situation being equal, is it plausible the allies prevail? Plausible yes, but the political situation would not be equal. What if the Normandy invasion was wiped out? Even WITH the Russians knifing their way to Warsaw at that time there would have been HUGE political consequences.
So it is a crap-shoot as far as I'm concerned. If the Allies can hang in there, maybe they win. I doubt, despite my love for the British Empire and Churchill and Spitfires, etc. etc., that they would in the face of any serious setbacks (i.e. being pushed out of Italy, again VERY plausible with a dozen or so eastern front divisions with some level of mechanization).
- WHD
P.S. Also consider that the Germans had a very impressive military research complex, they might not (probably not) have had the atomic bomb, but think of what just four full squardons of Me 262s could do to air superiority in the West.
--
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one".
- Godwin's Law
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one".
- Godwin's Law