R_G, I do think that we are having a case of very different moral bases that we are approaching this issue from, so I'll answer the questions no problem.
R_G wrote:Jesus I can't even wrap my head around your so called arguments, I have to imagine I'm talking to a machine that has no idea what human emotion or social conduct is.
It's not that I lack any of those things, it's just that they are based on different assumptions entirely, so we end up arguing with equal passion for the exact opposite things.
I think the abortion debate in particular really brings out the difference between the two camps.
R_G wrote:Serious question Rei Murasame, what is your relationship with your parents?
I'll answer this, no problem. I was and am very clingy and close to my mother. She gave me an absolutely fantastic childhood and really made sure that I "had everything my heart was set on". Naturally, this didn't come without responsibilities, but I was more than equal to the task, my school performance was very good.
My only quarrels with my mother crop up at times when she isn't paying attention to something that I think she should be paying attention to, and so I tend to be rather time-demanding with her. I think she just bears with it, since having me constantly trying to talk to her was/is markedly better than having some rebel child that refuses to listen or obey. I was really a model child for her, and she earned it by being a good parent.
My father was a real flamboyant 'man of the world', he used to travel a lot, and so he'd always come back from places with items that he'd say "I found this in Peru", or "I got you this when I was India", or whatever. He really lived life in the fast lane, he was busy and did what he had to do. I can only fault him on his rather cavalier approach to his own health, which was led to his undoing in the end. His circumstances death were avoidable, but I guess hindsight is 20-20. I won't hold a grudge against him for striving hard and pushing himself to the limit.
He was a person that had lots of secrets that needed to be guarded though, a lot of family-politics in the wider extended family seem to revolve around things that he or my grandfather did or were involved in.
There's a certain amount of pressure that I feel to make sure that I don't do anything that will render vain the sacrifices made by other family members to advance our position in life.
In short, I have no problems with my parents.
R_G wrote:No wonder they felt the need to massacre the Chinese and made the right deals with the Americans so their historical atrocities are slowly but surely forgotten by anyone who is outside of China.
Well, let me put it this way. In Leicester, everyone in this city was likely involved in something at some point in time which liberal morality of today would find to be abhorrent. You would be hard-pressed to find anyone that wasn't invested in carrying out a war at some point in recent history, and that can sometimes involve causing a lot of people to die.
But in the end, everyone is struggling because they think that their way is the right way. I have a number of friends whose families were involved in various... things... and I can assure you that we are all very cognisant that it's serious business, so no one would ever make a joke of things that were done.
It's possible to dislike the actions but love the cause, but sometimes we just have to accept that it was shoot or be shot.
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R_G wrote:It's comparable to how some graduates have to repay student loans in full every month and others get assistance in the government paying off their interest and deferring monthly payments.
Well, the poorer students need that assistance, right?
R_G wrote:I think you're in the mindset that pregnancy is an easy afterthought of sex. If a woman really didn't want to have children, she will take the proper pre-cautions. If every woman who didn't want to have children took birth control pills abortion rates would decrease substantially.
Sure, but no one can guarantee that they will always do that, so abortion is still on the table. Naturally birth control pills are preferable since they cost the treasury less, but some people are going to fail at that anyway, so they will still need to use abortion.
R_G wrote:Women who get abortions purely on the basis that their boyfriend or husband left them are weak individuals and their child shouldn't suffer for it.
If they are so 'weak' then the last thing I'd want them to do is have a child that they think they can't deal with.
R_G wrote:There exist enough government support programs that will help a woman in any financial situation to support a child
And I'm sure women do factor that into their decision. However, if they still don't like it, then that's that, they are going to terminate it anyway.
R_G wrote:or there's adoption.
Forcing a woman to put her genes into a carrier combined with some man's genes that she may or may not want to have combined it with, and then having to give the child away, compromises the fundamental blood-ties between relatives and the sovereignty of an extended family over its own genetic profile.
In my morality, it is actually more moral to guard your gene pool and terminate accidents, than to just let unplanned things happen.
If a child becomes orphaned and has to be adopted, that's fine, but carrying an accident for nine months that they and no-one else in their extended family wants, just to give it up for adoption, is a preposterous waste of calories and time and is a genetic throwaway.
They could terminated it and thus bring a swift end to the problem, rather than wasting everyone's time and money and bringing embarrassment to everyone.
R_G wrote:I tend to look at pregnancy as a very strong contract that cannot be broken once signed and the standard time period has passed where one could still opt to get out of it.
But we have the technology to terminate it at almost any time, so why limit yourself?
I'm pretty sure that if some family member of yours managed to make a mistake, you would go to their house and counsel in favour of abortion over a nice cup of tea, right?
There are very tactful ways to raise the subject, to check to make sure that they agree with you. Fortunately, it's never happened in my family, but if it did happen, I would likely be the one that would be sent as the cleaner
(hah), and it would be up to me to make sure that the person understands that it's the family's desire to support her in quickly getting rid of the problem.
I'm pretty sure that I could convey that message to someone in a warm and non-offensive way if I were asked to.
- By ingliz
- By Dr House
- By JohnRawls