- 04 Jul 2013 16:36
#14266191
Excellent.
A good starting point. I think it is futile to convert mainstream people into anarcho-capitalism. I too went through a phase of progressively more radical libertarianism before taking the final plunge into anarchism.
Before analysing the scenarios, let's both acknowledge that all forms of government require wide-spread supporting norms within the population to maintain stability. Most notably, democratic stability is far from assured.
In the US today, for example, there is a virtual consensus over two related points:
1. The Constitution is the fundamental basis for the legitimate use of force in society (most people wouldn't phrase their belief that way - they would say that the Constitution is the fundamental basis for legitimate government, but that amounts to the same thing at the end).
2. The US Supreme Court (USSC) is the ultimate legitimate mechanism for resolving disputes over the interpretation of the Constitution.
Red or blue state, liberals conservatives and most libertarians agree on both those points.
I suggest we make an analogous assumption regarding an anarchic society. I suggest we assume that the vast majority of people agree:
1. The NAP is the fundamental basis for the legitimate use of force in society.
2. Peaceful appeal to respectable arbitrator is the ultimate legitimate mechanism for resolving disputes over the interpretation of the NAP.
Unlike assumptions sometimes made by Marxists, I don't think these assumptions are unrealistic. In the past, people have accepted, for example, the Divine Right of Kings as the basis for ordering society. Surely relying on a Non Aggression Principle and the principle of peaceful resolution of disputes isn't outlandish.
None of the options you provide is most likely. The most likely by far is that the agencies, as a matter of routine, and without seriously contemplating any alternative,
Compare to the likely behaviour of modern governments when faced with a conflict between their citizens. Would the president of France even contemplate using military power against Germany following a commercial dispute between a French and a German citizen? How about sending French police across the border to arrest a German murderer of a French citizen? Unthinkable.
Reluctance to use force, if anything, would be greater under an-cap, both because the norm of peacefully resolving disputes would be more firmly established, and because the (great) cost of using force wouldn't be externalised to taxpayers, but borne by the agency itself.
Btw, the model I think is most likely would separate police functions into several specialities, taken up by different companies:
1. Deterrence and protection - equivalent to what private security companies do today. Mainly passive, with rare interaction with criminals.
2. Investigation of crimes - equivalent to what a PI might do today; includes identifying criminals and collecting evidence
3. Judgement enforcement - once an arbitrator issued a judgement, force may be required to enforce it. In most cases, no force is required (judgement is normally a restitution payment that can be collected from bank accounts or garnished wages). In some cases, enforcement may include arrest and incarceration.
This model lends itself only rarely to armed conflicts. In the vast majority of cases, the two sides to the dispute (one or both of which are likely to be insurance company) agree on an arbitrator, and then abide by its ruling.
Disputes can only arise when an arbitrator wasn't agreed in advance. The aggrieved party appeals to a judge, noting failed attempts to reach agreement. Both the judge and the enforcement agency need to be very careful, as a wrong judgement would make them liable. They thus take special precaution (which translates to more expensive judgement and enforcement, with the cost applied to the convicted criminal). Conflict with another agency is highly unlikely.
We can now consider the ongoing stability of this model. For example, can an agency stand to profit from "going rogue"? I think it is pretty clear that is not the case. Say an entrepreneurial agency CEO decides to gain clients by advertising an aggressive stance on fighting crime. He would do that by insisting that all criminal cases in which his clients are the victim will be heard in front of a particularly criminal-unfriendly arbitration agency. By advertising that, he reasons, people who are sick of light sentences will flock to his company.
Members of a racial minority group find they are often harassed by agents of said agency. Further, they feel that (1) they are sometimes found wrongly convicted, and (2) even when rightly convicted, sentences are excessive.
Another entrepreneurial agency CEO decides to try and get clients from amongst members of that racial minority group. He recruits clients by advertising that he would insist on arbitrators known to be sensitive to the rights of the accused, and issuing lighter sentences.
A test-case now comes up, with a victim being a customer of the first agency, and the accused (whether guilty or not) being a member of the second agency. In the negotiation between the agencies, a conflict arises as to the identity of the arbitrator. The two sides find no arbitrator acceptable to both.
What's next? Shooting war? Hardly. The cost of a shooting war is enormous.
1. You have to pay your men higher wages to account for the risk
2. You have to take a risk that innocents would be hurt, and you would be liable to paying for the damage
3. With peaceful cooperation being the norm, your reputational damage might be the greatest cost of all.
Further, because your employees do not enjoy immunity (as police officers and soldiers do today), they can be found personally liable for innocent deaths they cause. You mitigate that risk by purchasing third-party insurance policies to cover their liability. But those third-party policies will quickly disappear, or become much more expensive when you gain reputation for aggressive enforcement.
The likely scenario, then, is for each side to nominate an agent, and for the agents to agree on an arbitration firm. The experience of international relations shows that only highly unreasonable leaders fail to be able to agree on arbitration, negotiation or other peaceful avenues for resolving conflicts.
The equivalent of Hitler or Saddam couldn't exist in an an-cap society. He couldn't externalise the cost of war, obtain manpower through conscription or silence opposition using force.
Short of Hitler and Saddam, virtually all international conflicts are resolved peacefully.
I don't understand your point here. The NAP should be considered as the equivalent of the Constitution of society, not equivalent to its detailed laws and regulations. It is the basis upon which legal principles, rules and conventions are built. It is augmented by conventions, common law, explicit contracts, land-lord published rules, etc.
Police protection today is highly uneven. The ideal of equal protection to all has never existed in any society.
The NAP is the fundamental basis for the legitimate use of force. It isn't, however, the most important value in society. I am not sure what you mean by "relative enforcement".
Protection of individuals from aggression is just one good within society. Protecting them from the elements, from sickness and starvation are other goods, possibly more important.
The NAP states that you have a right to be free from aggression. Equivalently, it states that you have a right to use force (or authorise others to use force on your behalf) to enforce your property rights.
The NAP doesn't state that you can use force against innocent third parties, compelling them to help you defend your rights. In other words, the NAP doesn't authorise taxation for the purpose of funding a police force.
But the state, necessarily and by definition, relies on aggression for its existence.
Any person may legitimately protect himself and others from aggression (which I take to include theft, breach of contract, fraud, pollution, etc.). Any organisation may protect itself, its members and others from aggression. But no organisation may either (1) use aggression to fund such protection, or (2) use aggression to prevent others from offering similar protection.
Even Rand's voluntarily-funded state violates condition 2 above.
Violating the NAP is never legitimate. If a person's rights have been violated, that person can appeal to his insurance company, or sell his claim, and expect the issue to be resolved between his representatives and those of the community in question.
If the sentiments of the community are a minority within society, they will find themselves overwhelmed by those enforcing what is considered the legitimate view (i.e. NAP).
If the sentiments of the community become commonplace, a democratic minimal state would adopt them as well, and the NAP will no longer be enforced.
Within the justly-acquired property of the community, Marijuana prohibition isn't a violation of the NAP.
This would be legitimate, of course, as they are using their justly acquired property (e.g: this community does not allow marijuana usage). If every community did such things, that would allow the usage of the NAP principle to be twisted.
If the bulk of society takes the NAP to be its constitutional foundation, a state isn't necessary. If the bulk of society doesn't, a state won't either.
Eran, I hope we can sort out my issues with anarchy in the discussion that follows
Excellent.
Let me start off by saying that I fully understand the rationale behind a libertarian anarchy. It is morally justified by every measure I value.
A good starting point. I think it is futile to convert mainstream people into anarcho-capitalism. I too went through a phase of progressively more radical libertarianism before taking the final plunge into anarchism.
Before analysing the scenarios, let's both acknowledge that all forms of government require wide-spread supporting norms within the population to maintain stability. Most notably, democratic stability is far from assured.
In the US today, for example, there is a virtual consensus over two related points:
1. The Constitution is the fundamental basis for the legitimate use of force in society (most people wouldn't phrase their belief that way - they would say that the Constitution is the fundamental basis for legitimate government, but that amounts to the same thing at the end).
2. The US Supreme Court (USSC) is the ultimate legitimate mechanism for resolving disputes over the interpretation of the Constitution.
Red or blue state, liberals conservatives and most libertarians agree on both those points.
I suggest we make an analogous assumption regarding an anarchic society. I suggest we assume that the vast majority of people agree:
1. The NAP is the fundamental basis for the legitimate use of force in society.
2. Peaceful appeal to respectable arbitrator is the ultimate legitimate mechanism for resolving disputes over the interpretation of the NAP.
Unlike assumptions sometimes made by Marxists, I don't think these assumptions are unrealistic. In the past, people have accepted, for example, the Divine Right of Kings as the basis for ordering society. Surely relying on a Non Aggression Principle and the principle of peaceful resolution of disputes isn't outlandish.
I can envisage three possibilities of protection agencies being involved in disputes:
None of the options you provide is most likely. The most likely by far is that the agencies, as a matter of routine, and without seriously contemplating any alternative,
Compare to the likely behaviour of modern governments when faced with a conflict between their citizens. Would the president of France even contemplate using military power against Germany following a commercial dispute between a French and a German citizen? How about sending French police across the border to arrest a German murderer of a French citizen? Unthinkable.
Reluctance to use force, if anything, would be greater under an-cap, both because the norm of peacefully resolving disputes would be more firmly established, and because the (great) cost of using force wouldn't be externalised to taxpayers, but borne by the agency itself.
Btw, the model I think is most likely would separate police functions into several specialities, taken up by different companies:
1. Deterrence and protection - equivalent to what private security companies do today. Mainly passive, with rare interaction with criminals.
2. Investigation of crimes - equivalent to what a PI might do today; includes identifying criminals and collecting evidence
3. Judgement enforcement - once an arbitrator issued a judgement, force may be required to enforce it. In most cases, no force is required (judgement is normally a restitution payment that can be collected from bank accounts or garnished wages). In some cases, enforcement may include arrest and incarceration.
This model lends itself only rarely to armed conflicts. In the vast majority of cases, the two sides to the dispute (one or both of which are likely to be insurance company) agree on an arbitrator, and then abide by its ruling.
Disputes can only arise when an arbitrator wasn't agreed in advance. The aggrieved party appeals to a judge, noting failed attempts to reach agreement. Both the judge and the enforcement agency need to be very careful, as a wrong judgement would make them liable. They thus take special precaution (which translates to more expensive judgement and enforcement, with the cost applied to the convicted criminal). Conflict with another agency is highly unlikely.
We can now consider the ongoing stability of this model. For example, can an agency stand to profit from "going rogue"? I think it is pretty clear that is not the case. Say an entrepreneurial agency CEO decides to gain clients by advertising an aggressive stance on fighting crime. He would do that by insisting that all criminal cases in which his clients are the victim will be heard in front of a particularly criminal-unfriendly arbitration agency. By advertising that, he reasons, people who are sick of light sentences will flock to his company.
Members of a racial minority group find they are often harassed by agents of said agency. Further, they feel that (1) they are sometimes found wrongly convicted, and (2) even when rightly convicted, sentences are excessive.
Another entrepreneurial agency CEO decides to try and get clients from amongst members of that racial minority group. He recruits clients by advertising that he would insist on arbitrators known to be sensitive to the rights of the accused, and issuing lighter sentences.
A test-case now comes up, with a victim being a customer of the first agency, and the accused (whether guilty or not) being a member of the second agency. In the negotiation between the agencies, a conflict arises as to the identity of the arbitrator. The two sides find no arbitrator acceptable to both.
What's next? Shooting war? Hardly. The cost of a shooting war is enormous.
1. You have to pay your men higher wages to account for the risk
2. You have to take a risk that innocents would be hurt, and you would be liable to paying for the damage
3. With peaceful cooperation being the norm, your reputational damage might be the greatest cost of all.
Further, because your employees do not enjoy immunity (as police officers and soldiers do today), they can be found personally liable for innocent deaths they cause. You mitigate that risk by purchasing third-party insurance policies to cover their liability. But those third-party policies will quickly disappear, or become much more expensive when you gain reputation for aggressive enforcement.
The likely scenario, then, is for each side to nominate an agent, and for the agents to agree on an arbitration firm. The experience of international relations shows that only highly unreasonable leaders fail to be able to agree on arbitration, negotiation or other peaceful avenues for resolving conflicts.
The equivalent of Hitler or Saddam couldn't exist in an an-cap society. He couldn't externalise the cost of war, obtain manpower through conscription or silence opposition using force.
Short of Hitler and Saddam, virtually all international conflicts are resolved peacefully.
Another line of reasoning justifying my position might state that a universal body is necessary to uphold the NAP. If everyone can be guaranteed to be protected, then the NAP is not relatively upheld, across different groups of people, as would be the case in private protection.
I don't understand your point here. The NAP should be considered as the equivalent of the Constitution of society, not equivalent to its detailed laws and regulations. It is the basis upon which legal principles, rules and conventions are built. It is augmented by conventions, common law, explicit contracts, land-lord published rules, etc.
Police protection today is highly uneven. The ideal of equal protection to all has never existed in any society.
If we hold enforcement of the NAP as our highest order, then a situation in which relative enforcement arises (out of an invisible hand) is not acceptable.
The NAP is the fundamental basis for the legitimate use of force. It isn't, however, the most important value in society. I am not sure what you mean by "relative enforcement".
Protection of individuals from aggression is just one good within society. Protecting them from the elements, from sickness and starvation are other goods, possibly more important.
The NAP states that you have a right to be free from aggression. Equivalently, it states that you have a right to use force (or authorise others to use force on your behalf) to enforce your property rights.
The NAP doesn't state that you can use force against innocent third parties, compelling them to help you defend your rights. In other words, the NAP doesn't authorise taxation for the purpose of funding a police force.
I believe that the state's legitimate function is the protection of individuals from aggression, theft, breach of contract, and fraud.
But the state, necessarily and by definition, relies on aggression for its existence.
Any person may legitimately protect himself and others from aggression (which I take to include theft, breach of contract, fraud, pollution, etc.). Any organisation may protect itself, its members and others from aggression. But no organisation may either (1) use aggression to fund such protection, or (2) use aggression to prevent others from offering similar protection.
Even Rand's voluntarily-funded state violates condition 2 above.
Without a state, I believe the upholding the NAP is optional, as communities might arise (through their legitimate use of their justly acquired property) and set rules that violate the NAP.
Violating the NAP is never legitimate. If a person's rights have been violated, that person can appeal to his insurance company, or sell his claim, and expect the issue to be resolved between his representatives and those of the community in question.
If the sentiments of the community are a minority within society, they will find themselves overwhelmed by those enforcing what is considered the legitimate view (i.e. NAP).
If the sentiments of the community become commonplace, a democratic minimal state would adopt them as well, and the NAP will no longer be enforced.
This would be legitimate, of course, as they are using their justly acquired property (e.g: this community does not allow marijuana usage).
Within the justly-acquired property of the community, Marijuana prohibition isn't a violation of the NAP.
This would be legitimate, of course, as they are using their justly acquired property (e.g: this community does not allow marijuana usage). If every community did such things, that would allow the usage of the NAP principle to be twisted.
I believe a minimal state provides a framework to protect individual rights.
If the bulk of society takes the NAP to be its constitutional foundation, a state isn't necessary. If the bulk of society doesn't, a state won't either.
Free men are not equal and equal men are not free.
Government is not the solution. Government is the problem.
Government is not the solution. Government is the problem.