[Kaiserschmarrn]

Just goes to show where their priorities are. The end of western civilisation is near and a global depression looming, and all the EU can think about is punishing the UK? Pathetic.

[Dave]

I am sure Daimler Benz, BMW, and Volkswagen will have a word to say about that Killim.

[Decky]

Why does Volkswagen even exist? The Nazis founded it. It should be made into a Russian company as reparations.

[Albert]

It is interesting to see how history repeats itself. The situation now as developing is becoming to Napoleonic times. When you had the "Continental System". And Britain on its own facing the jegarnought.

[Decky]

We will beat them. What do we need from Germany? We started the industrial revolution while the rest of Europe still lived like animals. There is nothing a British worker can't manufacture.

[colliric]

I strongly disagree. Even if 90% were good willing (currently the vast majority is crying for blood) a single country would be enough to block everything. Furthermore they have an inherent interest to punish them really hard to teach others and keep the EU together. Especially if they are using it for a reorientation chance for further integration or change of the EU system. In this case they just want to get rid of them in the sense of 8% export getting down to 0%.

[youtube]PEHj8lnFRCw[/youtube]

Why does it feel more and more like George Lucas kinda got things right with the prequels.... Putin should be Yoda and Merkel "The Chancellor" though.

[Albert]

[The Sabbaticus]

The referendum isn't legally binding, Cameron has already resigned, leaving for others to decide how to respond to this close-but-not-quite split-vote referendum result. Now that the plebs have prevailed, the elites will have to use other means than scaremongering, unless of course even more scaremongering will be just as effective.

[Albert]

@The Sabbaticus what do you mean when you say that the referendum is not legally binding?

[Istanbuller]

Elderly Britons gave a democracy lesson to the whole world. It is proved again that baby boomers is the greatest generation. Thanks for lecturing.

Young Britons are not very loyal to their own country's values. But that doesn't matter anymore because there is a global aging phenomenon and young people are less important.

[The Sabbaticus]

@The Sabbaticus what do you mean when you say that the referendum is not legally binding?

Could MPs block an EU exit?

Could the necessary legislation pass the Commons, given that a lot of MPs - all SNP and Lib Dems, nearly all Labour and many Conservatives - were in favour of staying?

The referendum result is not legally binding - Parliament still has to pass the laws that will get Britain out of the 28 nation bloc, starting with the repeal of the 1972 European Communities Act.

The withdrawal agreement also has to be ratified by Parliament - the House of Lords and/or the Commons could vote against ratification, according to a House of Commons library report.

In practice, Conservative MPs who voted to remain in the EU would be whipped to vote with the government. Any who defied the whip would have to face the wrath of voters at the next general election.

One scenario that could see the referendum result overturned, is if MPs forced a general election and a party campaigned on a promise to keep Britain in the EU, got elected and then claimed that the election mandate topped the referendum one.

Two-thirds of MPs would have to vote for a general election to be held before the next scheduled one in 2020.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-32810887

[killim]

Thats a very interesting point. How is the successor of Cameron (bei it B.J. or whoever) able to whip the pro-EU tories in line? I assume that Labour would not help in the house of Commons. What happens if the new administration fails with the BREXIT project in parliament?

I assume that the administration can invoke the article 50 without a vote in the upper and lower house? This is true at least from the EU side. What would be the legal consequences if the administration invokes article 50 without a mandate from the lower and upper house?

[Kaiserschmarrn]

For what it's worth, I read that Corbyn said that article 50 should be invoked right away. He apparently faces a leadership challenge though, so who knows?

Labour is no less divided than the Tories overall, although for different reasons.

[Albert]

What is going on in Europe right now is a completed circus.

[N^G]

What is going on in Europe right now is a completed circus.

I think its quite interesting watching the salty politicians to see who acts with their brain and who simply acts on their feelings. Merkel has been surprisingly rational, whilst most of the rest have been every inch the egotistical lunatics that I have always taken them to be.

Was also interesting to see Putin reach out a little bit.

Excited to see how the political landscape is going to shape up.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

Merkel has been surprisingly rational, whilst most of the rest have been every inch the egotistical lunatics that I have always taken them to be.

It's not really surprising. There are some exception, such as the idiot Schulz, but Germans view themselves, and many are, moral technocrats. They generally look down on vindictiveness, which they feel has no place in decision-making.

They will impose some penalties on the UK for leaving, but this is mainly because it's a necessity for them in order to "save Europe".

[Dave]

Germans might not be Arabs and thus don't believe in vengeance strongly, but as Northern Europeans they have a high moral sense and believe in altruistic punishment.

Their conduct with Greece shows that quite clearly.

I tend to believe that German business interests will prevent that in this case however and am pleased by Merkel's remarks as much as I hate her.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

I still dispute the punishment narrative.

However, there is certainly little sympathy for Greece because, firstly, they are viewed to have brought this onto themselves for the most part, and secondly they are not Germans/people close to the German cultural sphere.

[Dave]

The Greeks may have brought this upon themselves, but the treatment since then has been both appalling and self-defeating.

I'll add that the German rejection of Keynesian economic concepts seems based on moral precepts.

[Potemkin]

The Greeks may have brought this upon themselves, but the treatment since then has been both appalling and self-defeating.

I'll add that the German rejection of Keynesian economic concepts seems based on moral precepts.

Introducing moralism into economics never ends well; the German treatment of Greece reminds of what C.S. Lewis once said: "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."